taxcollector Babylover SS training log

[Karl Schudt]

Glad to see the log. You'll get lots of good advice that will make things work better for you.

[taxcollector]

As far as recording lifts, I take a box that's around for box jumps and step ups, find a dumbbell with polygonal ends (not round), put the dumbbell on the box, and then prop my phone up on the box against the dumbbell. Not that it's ideal, but it works.

Nice one, thanks for the tip. Could even work with the round ones (don't have any polygonal end dumbbells iirc).

What about doing chins instead of the pullups? That's what Rip programs. The reasoning is simple. Chins are easier because they recruit more muscles into the lift. Chins are easier, so you can get your reps and start adding weight to them earlier. Chins work your biceps. Nobody wants small biceps. Therefore, do chin-ups.

Yes I could actually do an ok number of chinups before. But pullups target the upper back better if I'm correct? Especially with a widish grip (though mine is just above shoulder width). Maybe I could do them both, or add one of them every workout?

I use a 10kg plate on a bench, jam my phone in the handle or rest against the side of the plate.

Interesting, that might work even better. Can get a decent height angle with that.

Glad to see the log. You'll get lots of good advice that will make things work better for you.

Yeah it's already helping, will be nice once I get some form vids up. Thanks for the help yall

[Elizabeth G]

Nice one, thanks for the tip. Could even work with the round ones (don't have any polygonal end dumbbells iirc).

Round ones roll more easily, but I am sure that you can figure out something that you can easily prop it up against that would stay put. Maybe a heavier dumbbell would be better, with inertia helping to keep it in place. I just grab those rubber coated 8 lb ones that aren't terribly useful for other things.

I'm not that great with what exercises target which muscle better, in a body building sense. But something I am doing - chin-ups, deadlifts, cleans, something - is making my traps grow.

[taxcollector]

Those 3 all work the traps I think, though cleans target it the most (correct me if I'm wrong). I avoided using cleans due to the required technical prowess. I even don't do barbell rows cause I don't know how to target the right muscles with that exercise. With cable rows it's easier

[Elizabeth G]

I find cleans to be easier technically than squats, but I know that my form on both could stand improvement. Starting with hang cleans really helped. They're a ton of fun once you get the movement down. I want to learn how to snatch at some point, too.

[HeavyMetal]

Those 3 all work the traps I think, though cleans target it the most (correct me if I'm wrong). I avoided using cleans due to the required technical prowess. I even don't do barbell rows cause I don't know how to target the right muscles with that exercise. With cable rows it's easier

First, I'd like to point out something to you. A couple of times you've mentioned "targeting the right muscles" with a COMPOUND lift. Targeting specific muscles is certainly not the point here. When the lift is done with decent form, the muscles worked are the muscles that are supposed to be worked, and that's all you need to know. Starting Strength is not a bodybuilding split routine. You're not approaching this with the correct mindset.

Second, YNDTP if you are not including power cleans. Not doing cleans, and then not even replacing them with rows is a travesty.

Finally, regarding pullups/chins read this thread: http://startingstrength.com/resource...ad.php?t=45140 There's 21 pages of discussion with Rip himself on the matter.

I hope I'm not sounding harsh. That's not my intention. I just see you getting off to a wrong start, and think you will be seeing sub-optimal results. Buy the book. Read the book. I think that will go a long way in understanding why the program is as it is.

[Charlie Davies]

Actually chinups are a better exercise to alternate with deadlifts than rows, if you aren't doing cleans. Rip never recommends BB rows for novices. But learn the cleans, they are awesome. Lots of folks have been seduced away from bodybuilding into being real athletes by how fun the fast lifts are.

Taxcollector, read the "10 ways people fail at SS" link I sent earlier, it's a good one. I've committed at least half of those mistakes myself...

[Elizabeth G]

First, I'd like to point out something to you. A couple of times you've mentioned "targeting the right muscles" with a COMPOUND lift. Targeting specific muscles is certainly not the point here. When the lift is done with decent form, the muscles worked are the muscles that are supposed to be worked, and that's all you need to know. Starting Strength is not a bodybuilding split routine. You're not approaching this with the correct mindset.

If you follow the link in his first post, it's to a bodybuilding.com thread that claims that "We typically see people come off Rippetoes with tiny rear delts, relatively weak upper backs". I didn't read past the first post, but it does seem like he found SS through a bodybuilding site, and that he's come away with the impression that his upper back and rear delts (whatever those are) will be relatively weak and underdeveloped if he follows the program as written. Hence the focus on targeting the right muscles. I'm just trying to point out that the specified exercises do work that area of the body and will make it grow if he's starting out under-muscled, which it sounds like he is.

I think a fair number of us here, myself included, started off by doing some bastardization of the program with mediocre results, and did the actual program with great results. There is a reason why it is the way that it is.

ETA - Are you doing any conditioning? I don't see anything listed. I've seen recommendations for doing things like 0:20 hard, 1:40 rest, 7-10 times total, on a rower or prowler. It may not hurt if you're concerned about body fat levels.

[taxcollector]

Actually chinups are a better exercise to alternate with deadlifts than rows, if you aren't doing cleans. Rip never recommends BB rows for novices. But learn the cleans, they are awesome. Lots of folks have been seduced away from bodybuilding into being real athletes by how fun the fast lifts are.

Taxcollector, read the "10 ways people fail at SS" link I sent earlier, it's a good one. I've committed at least half of those mistakes myself...

I did, even before you linked it. I did commit some of the mistakes (like not reading the whole SS book).

SS was recommended to me by a kind user on another forum (not bodybuilding related) as a way to maximize my base of strength before implementing BB techniques into my routine.

I don't see why my routine is much worse than the traditional SS routine. I doubt having power cleans would change my gains all that much, I must be doing something else wrong (like nutrition,recovery, technique).

I skipped a workout last week due to a video game LAN tournament I had to attend and practice for. Not going back to that anytime soon though.
I repeated my last workout, but I deloaded the squat:

Tuesday, 11th January
Squat
Warmup sets
Bar x 5, 47 kg x 5, 67 kg x 3
Work sets
77 kg x 1 x 5, 72 kg x 2 x 5

Deloaded to 77 kg at first (down from 92 kg), but it still felt quite heavy for some reason, even had to pause between reps. Deloaded further to 72 kg, and it still felt heavy. Want to get my squat form down for real this time. Here's a vid of my first set (skip the first 18 seconds):



I think I'm not going deep enough. Can't go much deeper even without the bar. Also, can you guys tell if my bar is in the right place? In the SS DVD series it seems people keep the bar lower than me, but I really can't get it any lower than I currently am (it's simply not stable).

Bench Press
Warmup sets
Bar x 5, 47 kg x 4, 57 kg x 3, 62 kg x 2, 67 kg x 1
Work sets
72 kg x 1 x 4, 2, 2

Time to deload the Bench. I struggle quite a bit with this exercise and I'd really like to get better at it. The first set I managed to get 4 but I think it was only because my spotter was almost holding the bar on my first rep for whatever reason (told him to keep his hands off it, can see it in the video):



Lat pulldown
Warmup sets
40 kg x 5
Work sets:
45 kg x 11, 45 kg x 9, 45 kg x 8

Definitely improved, but not sure why my reps dropped down so much after the first set. I rest 3 mins for the accessories I've added, which should be more than enough.

Cable row (supinated grip):
Warmup sets
55 kg x 3
Work sets
65 kg x 2 x 8, 65 kg x 1 x 9

Improved here as well.

Thursday, 13th January
Squat
Warmup sets
Bar x 5, 47 kg x 5, 67 kg x 3, 72 kg x 1
Work sets
77 kg x 3 x 5

Felt heavy, but definitely better than last time. Starting to work on my hip drive - I didn't even utilize it before, that is I didn't focus on my hips at all when squatting. Also trying to go deeper, but depth isn't really consistent. Filmed this as well (posted in next post).

Overhead Press
Warm up sets
Bar x 5, 27 kg x 4, 37 kg x 3, 42 kg x 1
Work sets
44.5 kg x 3 x 5

Aww yeah, PR on this. I thought I was going to have to deload this exercise but I managed to nail it on my last attempt. However I would shake a ton on the last rep of every set, especially the 3rd set. I recorded the first set here:



Deadlift
Warm up sets
57 kg x 5, 67 kg x 4, 77 kg x 3, 87 kg x 2, 92 kg x 1
Work sets
97 kg x 1 x 3

Well, didn't make the 5 reps, but at least I got the weight off the ground this time. It felt quite heavy and I thought my back rounded, but after looking at my recording I think I was fine. Maybe I could've done 4 reps, maybe even 5, but after the 3rd rep I felt weak and didn't proceed. Maybe that was the smart choice? Here's the recording (full screen it and skip the first 30 seconds of me setting up):



Have to say my form looks fucked up on the first rep (the way I set up), but later on I improve it a bit.

Pullups
Work sets:
1 x 16

This time I could actually do a full ROM pullup. Did about 16 single sets with rest time varying between 40 seconds and 1 minute and 20 seconds.

Saturday, 15th January
Squat
Warmup sets
Bar x 5, 47 kg x 5, 77 kg x 2
Work sets
82 kg x 3 x 5

Well I think I'm finally understanding hip drive. The weight was sort of heavy and bar speed wasn't that good, but this time I was using my hips to literally power through the heavyness and I think this increased my bar speed significantly. I just need to tighten my lower back a bit more and hit the right depth - I think I was doing better in that regard as well this time (didn't record sadly).

Bench Press
Warmup sets
Bar x 5, 47 kg x 5, 57 kg x 3, 62 kg x 2
Work sets
67 kg x 3 x 5

Upon writing this I realized how stupid I am haha. I deloaded only 5 kgs because I kept thinking I bench about 50 kg for some reason (I usually only count the weights without the bar in my head). No wonder it felt quite heavy pushing this, but I did them anyway. What do you guys suggest I do now after messing this up, do this same weight next workout?

Lat pulldown
Warm up sets
45 kg x 3
Work sets
50 kg x 7, 50 kg x 2 x 8

Not bad, considering how frustrated I was with this exercise (for stalling), but after focusing on having an explosive pull and a slow release, I seem to be improving.

Cable Row
Warm up sets
none
Work sets
65 kg x 2 x 10, 65 kg x 1 x 9

Improved here as well. Was a good workout overall, felt nice.

Note: added all form videos

[Charlie Davies]

Hi taxcollector, looks like you're working hard here!

Re: programming, do what you like. Any program that has squats and deadlifts in it is far better than most people's routines.

Re: squat video, the biggest problem I see is that your back isn't rigid, you are hyperextending in the middle and flexing at the bottom. Looking at yourself in the mirror might be causing this -- pick a spot on the floor 5' in front of you and look at that. Look down, tight abs, knees out to get better depth.

Your squat would be a lot easier to see if you make your video from hip or shoulder level, instead of from the floor.

Re: deadlifts, try wearing sweatpants that cover your legs and/or knee-high socks and really keep the bar against your legs. Might help.

Disclaimer -- I'm not a coach. You can get a real coach's advice by starting a thread in the Staff Coach's Q&A.