phfrohring's training logs

[Pierre-Henry F.]

- Definitions
- Program
- Last perfs

Well, I've hit a plateau... hard.
Need to do something but what?
First, I'll take a look @ the first three questions, then we will see.

[Bill Anders]

We'd be glad to help, but need to be able to see what you're doing. For many of us not on IG, that requires a log in, which prevents us from seeing what you are doing. And the SS App output that you've posted isn't very illuminating.

But yes, the first three questions are the most important, especially at this stage of your journey.

[Pierre-Henry F.]

We'd be glad to help, but need to be able to see what you're doing. For many of us not on IG, that requires a log in, which prevents us from seeing what you are doing. And the SS App output that you've posted isn't very illuminating.

But yes, the first three questions are the most important, especially at this stage of your journey.

Thank you Bill.
Here is a Google spreadsheet with the last few trainings.
Does that help ?

[Bill Anders]

That helps immensely.

What program are you doing? Initially I thought that, based on your squat and deadlift, that it's time for you to start transitioning to some Intermediate programming. But then I started noticing the scheduling and progression of your different lifts.

For example, your squat workouts for May:
2/5 - 165x5x3
9/5 - 167.5x5x3 (7 days)
13/5 - 155x5x3 (4 days)
16/5 - 170x5x3 (3 days)
23/5 - 172x5x3 (7 days)

Mind you, that's a strong squat, especially if you were doing the Starting Strength NLP, but the lack of frequency compared to a Monday-Wednesday-Friday programming may be impacting your progression. It may be time for some modulation of squat intensity for your late-stage NLP (e.g., M-174x5x3, W-140x5x3, F-176x5x3), where that lighter Wednesday gives your back a bit of a break.

And your deadlift/power clean:
29/4 - 200x5x1
4/5 - 75x5x3 (power clean, switch these to 3x5's for these more technical lifts as described in the book, as you're more likely to injure yourself on reps 4 or 5)
6/5 - 205x5x1
11/5 - 77x5x3 (power clean, switch to 3x5's)
18/5 - 80x5x3 (power clean, same)
20/5 - 210x5x1
25/5 - 70x5x3 (power clean, decreased weight?)
30/5 - 210x5x1

Better frequency, but inconsistent (up to 14 days between) deadlift workouts. Also, increase your rest time for your deadlift, if you can. I'm an old guy (54), deadlifting ~50kg less than you, with a rest time of ~8 minutes, while my clean is similar to yours, but my rest time for those 3x5's is ~3 minutes. Also, starting thinking of your squat and deadlift as complementary. As one goes up, so does the other. But also, as one starts to beat up your back, the other will suffer. You aren't there, but give Santana's article on Artificially Weak Deadlifts a read, including the forum discussions for each article.

And your press:
2/5 - 70x5x3
6/5 - 72x5x3
9/5 - 73x5x3
13/5 - 74x5x3
16/5 - 77x3x3
20/5 - 74x3x5 (decrease?)
23/5 - 77x3x5

Great frequency! If you haven't yet, watch Nick's video on late-stage NLP programming for the press and bench, which will be the first lifts to progress to Intermediate programming.

If you're already following some Intermediate programming, which one?

There's quite a bit more, but the best thing to do is get back on track with doing the program as written, without variation (e.g., cut tabata for now, which will significantly impact your recovery).

Regardless, keep at it!

[Pierre-Henry F.]

Thank you Bill for the very nice and detailed answer.
I will answer your questions and comment on suggestions below:

> What program are you doing?
> If you're already following some Intermediate programming, which one?
Please, take a look at the "Program" link below.
I'm slowly transitioning to some kind of HLM programming.

> Start transitioning to some Intermediate programming.
Yes, it's time as I'm plateauing everywhere & will hardly be able to improve nutrition and sleep.

> And your deadlift/power clean ... Better frequency, but inconsistent
Yes. I've injured myself with subpar technique and overblown weights on my power clean.
I've healed and decreased the weights on my power clean.


> cut tabata for now, which will significantly impact your recovery
O.K.

Here you go: detailed data and nice graphs to guess trends or lack thereof.

- Data
- Deadlift
- Squat
- Bench press
- Press
- Chin up
- Power clean
- Session
- Program
- Body weigth
- Sleep

[Bill Anders]

Pierre-Henry,

Thanks for that. It's all making a bit more sense.

First off, I was thinking that you were still in your NLP, since you posted this in the "Starting Strength Training Logs" forum. Typically, this is where the NLP logs are kept, so that colored my thinking and understanding of what you were posting. Regardless, I'm understanding now. And for you, understand that I am not a coach, just an older guy who has been doing this a while.

Second - great work with the spreadsheets. I'm a huge fan, keeping many myself, not just for training, but all things in life. It drives my wife a bit nuts.

OK, wall of text to follow (hopefully not too much):

- Looking at how you've laid out your two-week cycle, it's more of an advanced program where PRs would be achieved every month+. You are getting pretty strong with your squat and deadlift, and perhaps ready to start with intermediate programming, but not advanced programming. Your recovery cycle just isn't that long yet. Within Intermediate programming, PRs would be weekly to bi-weekly, which you'd be approaching with your presses, although I think that you could run NLP on your Squat and Deadlift, as long as you stick to Advanced NLP program. Also, looking at the program that you've posted in your spreadsheet, your description of the workouts tells me "Texas Method" more than HLM.

- Coming off of your NLP and transitioning into Intermediate programming, you're taking too much time off between lifts. Looking at your squats, for example and assuming that you're working out at the same time each session (e.g, 1830 each training day), you have 96 hours between Monday & Friday, then 120 hours between Friday & Wednesday/Wednesday & Monday. At this stage of HLM or TM, you'd be taking at most 72 hours between a Friday & Monday, but the most common would be 48 hours (e.g., M/W/F) between lift variants. Recovery is good, but as you're finding, too much isn't. If you have The Barbell Prescription (I recommend it for everyone, regardless of age), in Figure 7-2 (pg 307) you'll see the Intermediate Stress/Recovery/Adaptation (SRA) cycle for a three-week period, where each week builds on the previous. But with your prolonged breaks, you're essentially restarting from a little bit more than the baseline each time.

- On most of your lifts, you are working a 2:1 Intensity:Volume cycle. There's a lot of discussion in the boards here about which drives the other. Andy Baker mentions that the Intensity Days are a gauge of the progress that you are making, while the Volume Days are the foundation. But you have to be very careful with too much Volume. That's why, in TM programming, there's a Recovery Day in the middle of the week, not a complete day off. In TM the weekly programming is Volume (Heavy) - Recovery (Light) - Intensity (Medium). Note that I put the HLM days in there for comparison, where the Medium day could be your Intensity Day, which is more intense with heavy singles, but overall less stressful because you aren't putting in the volume that you would be sets across (i.e., workset tonnage for 1x5 is significantly less than 5x2, etc.).


Recommendations:

I've attached a screenshot of your program tab, with two different illustrations of how you might lay out your intermediate program (below the green line). Open it in a new tab to read it easier.

- The first is a basic HLM program for your Squat and Deadlift, with a modified TM for the presses based on Nick's recommended Intermediate Press Programming.

- The second is a basic TM program, pulled straight from The Barbell Prescription.



With both, you'll notice that the frequency increases for each lift, although the intensity modulates during the week. That way you build up more of a foundation on which to lift heavier the next week without a stall.

Summary:
- Don't make this more complicated than it needs to be;
- Increase your frequency for each of your lifts, away from M/F/W (squat) or every other week (deadlift), to M/W/F to build that foundation and take advantage of the SRA cycle;
- Consider getting back to NLP for your Squats and Deadlifts (you just might have another 25kg+ to add to each before you need to go to Intermediate programming);
- Consider the modified TM for your Presses as Nick recommends;
- Keep tracking your answers to The First Three Questions.

Finally - Keep at it!

Hopefully this helps,
Bill

[Pierre-Henry F.]

Thank you Bill, the help is very much appreciated.
So, I've chosen to go for the HLM suggestion.
I'll try this program for the next couple of weeks and see where it leads.
I've also took the time to carefully define all the terms used since I've noticed a few semantic differences.
For example, I thought that "Volume" meant what "Tonnage" actually meant.
All of these are defined in the "Definition" sheet below.
Thank you.

Google Sheets:

- Definition
- Program
- Max
- All lifts
- Data
- Squat
- Deadlift
- Press
- Bench press
- Power clean
- Chin up
- Sleep
- Body weigth

[Bill Anders]

Glad to help. I suspect that you'll find yourself moving past your plateau pretty quick.

Keep at it!

[Pierre-Henry F.]

Good session, everything went smoothly.
Actually, too much: the bench press was way too easy.
I miscalculated the load.

So, I need a formula to compute a good estimated 1rm from a 5rm or a 5 reps x 3 series rm ; does anyone know such a formula ?
Then, from this 1 rm, it will be easy to not miscalculate the loads.

Just because we have charts now:




Google Sheets:

- Definition
- Program
- Max
- All lifts
- Data
- Squat
- Deadlift
- Press
- Bench press
- Power clean
- Chin up
- Sleep
- Body weigth

[Pierre-Henry F.]

My god it was hard.
My left leg was pretty sore, I had to warm up quite a bit but, to my surprise, the heavy deadlift was a success.
I thought that I would tore my hamstring, but it hold good.
The power clean was too easy, I should probably bump the weight up to 80kg.

Look at this glorious chart:




Google Sheets:

- Definition
- Program
- Max
- All lifts
- Data
- Squat
- Deadlift
- Press
- Bench press
- Power clean
- Chin up
- Sleep
- Body weigth