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Thread: First timer

  1. #1
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    Default First timer

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    Hello,

    33 years old standing today at 6'2 weighing 156 lb. This isn't really related but at 22 I weighed 128. Always been the skinniest guy in the room.

    After roleplaying with various Reddit workouts and flailing around on gym machines over the years I saw someone suggest SS and bought the 2nd edition. I wrote more but decided to keep the details light for now so here's the log:

    - 5/29/23 -
    Squat: 55lb
    Bench Press: 50lb
    Deadlift: 60lb

    - 5/31/23 -
    Squat: 65lb
    Press: 50lb
    Power Clean: 50lb

    - 6/2/23 -
    Squat: 75lb
    Bench Press: 55lb
    Deadlift: 75lb

    - 6/5/23 -
    Squat: 85lb
    Press: 55lb
    Power Clean: 55lb

    - 6/7/23 -
    Squat: 95lb
    Bench Press: 60lb
    Deadlift: 90lb

    - 6/9/23 -
    Squat: 105lb
    Press: 60lb
    Power Clean: 60lb

    - 6/12/23 -
    Squat: 115lb
    Bench Press: 65lb
    Deadlift: 105lb

    - 6/14/23 -
    Squat: 125lb
    Press: 65lb
    Power Clean: 65lb

    - 6/16/23 -
    Squat: 135lb
    Bench Press: 70lb
    Deadlift: 120lb

    - Weight -
    6/7/23 - 6/13/23 average: 155.5
    6/14/23 - 6/19/23 average: 156.8

    After such a short time I already feel stronger than I ever have in my life and while that feeling is obviously in my head (I know I'm still skinny) everything I do in my daily life is noticeably easier.

    Thank you Rip & friends. Will update on occasion.
    Last edited by bigstrongmanthings; 06-19-2023 at 07:05 PM.

  2. #2
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    Jun 2019
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    Welcome, and congratulations on taking the first steps in your journey to being stronger.

    I can't say what's in the Second Edition book, as the Third Edition has been out for 12 years now. I understand that there were quite a few changes into this Third Edition that would make it worthwhile to pick up (and they've continued to make revisions). The reason I say that is that if what you're doing is outlined in the second edition, then it's definitely outdated and is sending you down the wrong path.

    I say "wrong path" because your squat is 15lbs ahead of your deadlift when your deadlift should be somewhere around 50lbs or more greater than your squat. At no point during this program should the squats come close to matching your deadlift. For you, it's in part due to the fact that you started the power cleans right from the beginning, when the program doesn't introduce them until several weeks in. Up until that point, you're squatting and deadlifting every session and you continue that until you aren't quite able to recover from deadlifting that frequently; that's when you introduce the power cleans. See The Starting Strength Program.

    Were you following the program correctly and making the same jumps that you have been, your 6/16/23 session would have had your squat at 135lbs (like you did) and your deadlift at 180lbs, which is right about where you need it to be. Even if you dropped back to +10lb jumps instead of the +15lb jumps, you'd still be right about where you need to be. And right about now would be the time to introduce Cleans.

    You'll want to correct that sooner than later, as it will cause significant problems for you in the not too distant future.

    But still, congratulations on taking theses first steps.

    Keep at it!

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Anders View Post
    I can't say what's in the Second Edition book, as the Third Edition has been out for 12 years now. I understand that there were quite a few changes into this Third Edition that would make it worthwhile to pick up (and they've continued to make revisions). The reason I say that is that if what you're doing is outlined in the second edition, then it's definitely outdated and is sending you down the wrong path.
    I would suspect a misunderstanding on my part and am very thankful to have all of this pointed out. Edit: Ordered 3rd edition.

    After revising the plan and taking into account the difficulty of the last two workouts the next two sessions will look like this:

    Squat: 140
    Bench Press: 75
    Deadlift: 130

    Squat: 145
    Press: 70
    Deadlift: 140

    From there on:

    Squat +5
    BP +5
    Press +5
    DL +5

    Until around May 10th. Does that look valid?
    Last edited by bigstrongmanthings; 06-19-2023 at 07:18 PM.

  4. #4
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    If your current jumps (+10lbs for the Squat and +15lbs for the Deadlift) are working, keep running that. Although if these last two sessions were difficult, you can scale it back a bit to +5 for the Squat, like you mentioned, and +10lbs for the Deadlift after these next two sessions. You'll still want to build a gap between the two lifts, with the deadlift being a fair bit ahead of the squat. Putting both at +5lbs like you mentioned won't get you there. There's a very good reason that you want to have your deadlift 50+lbs ahead of your squat in a few weeks, the details of which I won't bog you down with right now.

    I also think that you can run that +15lbs for the deadlift for a while more, especially if you keep alternating the Cleans, as this is about the point where you would be introducing them, being a few weeks in. Going +5lbs each session on the squat will gain you +15lbs/week, while +15lbs on the deadlift will gain you +30lbs/week. Of course, dropping back to +10lbs is +20lbs/week, which will still put you ahead of the squat, slowly but surely.

    Having said all of that, you started too light on both the squat and deadlift. You were capable of more than 55/60lbs and if you had followed the procedures in the book on how to find your first workset weights, you probably would have started somewhere in the ballpark of 105lbs for the squat and 135lbs for the deadlift. But no sense in worrying about that now.

    Keep at it!

  5. #5
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    You're correct in that I started too light. I suppose I shouldn't have named the thread "first timer" since technically I tried this program last July but hurt my back doing squats on session ~3 and haven't attempted anything since. I started with all weights very low this time to try to relearn the exercises properly (and mainly to prevent giving myself any excuses to drop training).

    Consider "first timer" to mean this is my first time sticking with a workout.

    I'll try +15 on the DL a while longer. Thank you again for your help.

  6. #6
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    +10 lb jumps can be tolerated for quite a while. A number of people come here with artificially low deadlifts because they switch to 5 pound jumps prematurely. I wouldn't drop to 5 pound deadlift jumps until you a) your deadlift is quite a distance our ahead of your squat (50 pounds at the absolute minimum) and b) you are deadlifting less than three times a week, and possibly less than once a week. The deadlifting on bench days only (the most readily identifiable as the "NLP" program) phase is still calibrated with 10 pound jumps on the deadlift, so that the deadlift and squat both increase by 30 pounds every two weeks, preserving the gap between the two which has been created in the first, deadlifting 3x a week phase. Hold off on +5 deadlift jumps for as long as possible

  7. #7
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    Numbers:

    - 6/19/23 -
    Squat: 140
    Bench Press: 75
    Deadlift: 135

    - 6/21/23 -
    Squat: 145
    Press: 70
    Deadlift: 150

    During my squat, for the first time, I went down on the last rep and almost couldn't get back up. Going to stay at 5 lb jumps.

    The deadlift felt great.

    If I understand all the advice given so far then I believe doing the above routine until I can no longer DL 3x a week and the DL is ahead of the squat by 50 lb+ is the correct way out of this.
    Last edited by bigstrongmanthings; 06-22-2023 at 07:35 AM.

  8. #8
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    May I ask how is you diet 156 at 6'2 sounds really low to me?

  9. #9
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    Breakfast: 6-8 eggs
    Lunch: Chicken & rice, protein shake (whey, pb powder, oats, yogurt, banana, milk)
    Dinner: Anything to get calories up

    My goal is 2500+ calories with ~156g protein and 78g fat which I think is covered both by the above and drinking nearly a gallon of milk per day. I didn't weigh myself in the beginning of the routine but around mid-May I was ~151. Eating (and the tracking of) is an issue.

  10. #10
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    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by bigstrongmanthings View Post
    If I understand all the advice given so far then I believe doing the above routine until I can no longer DL 3x a week and the DL is ahead of the squat by 50 lb+ is the correct way out of this.
    Almost.

    Do the above routine. Once +15lbs on the deadlift is unmanageable (which should happen soon), drop to +10lbs until that's unmanageable, then +5lbs. Once that's unmanageable, re-introduce your Cleans on alternate sessions. That sequence doesn't have a time frame, as it could cascade rapidly over the next few weeks. Or you might be able to manage it for a while.

    Also, don't fixate on that +50lb differential between the squat and deadlift. Just get the deadlift out as far ahead of the squat as you can while recovering well. The rationale is that both lifts rely very heavily on the same muscles, specifically the glutes, hamstrings, and lower back. The interesting aspect of that is that the deadlift can bring the squat along with it as the weights increase, but if your squat is too close to the deadlift, the squat will continue to rise as your deadlift stalls and/or completely halts and the squat approaches or surpasses the deadlift weight.

    Looking ahead, you'll have to introduce a light squat day so you can recover from those sessions. When you do, consider adjusting your programming so that your deadlift falls on that light day. Small adjustments like these can make or break progress.

    Keep at it!

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