Full complement of form checks....

[nisora33]

LHPoulin isn't tucking his elbows on the descent it looks like.
His bench is more reminiscent of this...


In contrast we have a pretty drastic tuck in powerlifitng...


If you check your copy of Starting Strength Rip advocates a more medium position with moderate tucking. This creates a more diagonal bar path (with a normal proportioned person).

OP does an exceptional job at arching his back. The more flexible the trainee and the more arched he can therefore get his back, the straighter the bar path will become. He's touching his mid-chest and his elbows stay directly under the bar the entire time, both of which Rip advocates. All is well here, confuzzled.

And to respond to your other musings, confuzz, if the trainee's goal is to bench according to the model presented in Starting Strength, then he or she needs to be touching mid-chest, not lower chest. Touching the lower chest isn't necessarily wrong (it depends on what style of bench you're using), it just isn't SS style. So if someone says they're doing SS, and they show a video of themselves making contact with the lower chest during their bench, then I'm going to gripe at them. Otherwise, no.

-Stacey

[confuzzl3don3]

Mmm, so one should ignore the degree of elbow flare and merely aim to get the bar to hit mid-chest (nipple line) and keep the elbows under the bar?

The thing is why then do people still have a pronounced / bar path if the initial position of the bar should already begin pretty much over the mid-chest, then wouldn't lowering the bar to a mid-chest position be a pretty much vertical straight up and down? If you can make a pronounced / bar path then you're either starting with the bar above your upper chest/neck region and then moving down to mid-chest, or you are beginning with the bar over the mid-chest but going down to a position on your lower chest.

Also i don't see how you can vary the degree of elbow flaring you make if you are keeping your elbows under the bar. The only way i can think of in allowing a person to make themselves change their amount of elbow flare while still having the elbows under the bar, is either by making your grip wider or narrower, or changing the position of the bar in your grip (which i don't think is optimal).

Please correct me.

[nisora33]

Mmm, so one should ignore the degree of elbow flare and merely aim to get the bar to hit mid-chest (nipple line) and keep the elbows under the bar?

The bench technique that puts the elbows under the bar and has the bar touching right at mid-chest at the bottom will also be the one that produces medium elbow flare, just as described in SS.

The thing is why then do people still have a pronounced / bar path if the initial position of the bar should already begin pretty much over the mid-chest...

No, lockout will put the bar plumb to the spine of the scapula, which is where the proximal end of the humerus fits into the glenoid. This places the bar right above the upper pec.

Also i don't see how you can vary the degree of elbow flaring you make if you are keeping your elbows under the bar. The only way i can think of in allowing a person to make themselves change their amount of elbow flare while still having the elbows under the bar, is either by making your grip wider or narrower, or changing the position of the bar in your grip (which i don't think is optimal).

No, you can consciously tuck the elbows toward the ribs as you go down, even with a wide grip, as long as you strive to touch lower on the chest as you do so. This would keep the elbows under the bar. This would, however, cause the forearms to no longer be perpindicular to the bar if you were to look at the bench presser on-end (forearms would actually be angled out). This is an inefficient way to transfer force to the bar, and the reason Rip doesn't recommend it.

-S.

[confuzzl3don3]

Thanks Stacey. Informative as usual. So basically:
1) start with bar above spine so it'll be over upper pec
2) lower bar to mid-chest (nipple-line) while keeping elbows under the bar
3) use a medium grip as stated in SS

Follow this and i should have the basics covered (adding the arch of course)

[LHPoulin]

Stacey, could you please check the new deadlift video I posted on the previous page? I think I fixed most of it except for the rounding of the back. I need some tips for that, I feel extended even though I'm not.

[nisora33]

Stacey, could you please check the new deadlift video I posted on the previous page? I think I fixed most of it except for the rounding of the back. I need some tips for that, I feel extended even though I'm not.

Look at the position of your scapula relative to the bar just prior to executing the 1st rep, then look at that position just prior to reps 2-4: the latter positioning is correct.

As for your lumbar spine being in flexion, it's likely either an issue of proprioception (you not knowing what a rigidly extended lumbar spine feels like) or hamstring flexibility (tight hamstrings pulling on the ischial tuberosity, tilting the pelvis and pulling the lumbars out of extension) or both.

Out of curiosity, how high is the heel lift in your shoes, taking into account the thickness of the sole beneath the ball of the foot? They don't look very high from here, but I just thought I'd ask.

-Stacey

[LHPoulin]

the heels in my shoes are 1" according a tape measure. i bought a new pair of rogue do-wins and they are about the same, not using those because they are being exchanged for a smaller size.

before i go to work tonight i might go back out to the polebarn and work on back flexion. i want to nip this in the bud, i'm getting there, and flexibility has always been an issue with me.

as far as the scapula, i took stills out of the video prior to rep one and two, and i've been switching them back and forth and i don't see a whole lot of difference. the only thing i can see is that the scapula on rep 1 is just a bit more over the bar. am i on the right track here or no?

[nisora33]

the heels in my shoes are 1" according a tape measure. i bought a new pair of rogue do-wins and they are about the same, not using those because they are being exchanged for a smaller size.

before i go to work tonight i might go back out to the polebarn and work on back flexion. i want to nip this in the bud, i'm getting there, and flexibility has always been an issue with me.

as far as the scapula, i took stills out of the video prior to rep one and two, and i've been switching them back and forth and i don't see a whole lot of difference. the only thing i can see is that the scapula on rep 1 is just a bit more over the bar. am i on the right track here or no?

Picture on the left is of you just before your 1st rep, and picture two is right before rep 2 or 3. Notice that the picture on the right demonstrates a less steep back angle. Such a back angle could not have been achieved without your having positioned your hips slightly higher and, therefore, your shoulder blades further out over the bar, see?

[LHPoulin]

Got it. It's like crystal now. Tomorrow night when I do my Press/Clean I'll do some more to get this memorized.