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Thread: Power clean vs muscle clean

  1. #11
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    I wasnt trying to give detailed instruction on technique. When I say hips I tend to mean the whole thighs anyway.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by misspelledgeoff View Post
    I am not talking about coaching cues, I am talking about the technical execution of the lift.
    You're right, it's a jump with the bar, where your feet might or might not leave the ground.

    Not to contradict that at all, the jumping description can be detrimental, like if someone thinks of it too much as jumping, they might add a "donkey kick" just to get their feet off the ground.

    Back to the OP, as misspelledgeoff already said, as the weight increases, you'll eventually need to quarter squat to catch the bar. Power is moving a heavy object fast, and power is at a maximum in the PC when it's the heaviest weight you can catch somewhere in the quarter squat range. When the weight is light enough that you catch it standing, you lose the heavy (high force) element of power. When the weight is so heavy that you have to full squat to catch it, you lose the speed element of power. In the middle is the sweet spot.

    This study on hang power cleans has a plot of power vs %1RM. Power was at a max at 80% of 1RM, though the error bars are so big that it's possible the sweet spot is pretty big, too, and I didn't read how they determined 1RM.

    The PC always seemed the most nebulous to me as far as when to switch from 10 lb jumps to 5 lb jumps, because it's a judgment call whether you missed a lift. I imagine the answer is in the book, and I just need to re-read that section, or use the search function.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by bowdirk View Post

    Guess which one lets you move more weight.

    -Bowdirk
    But which one gets you more SWOLE?!

    -Hat

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by BrotherIron View Post
    Well according to John Coffee, a Power Clean has the third pull and you pull yourself under to parallel or higher and a muscle clean has no bend at the knees.

    Are you staying over the bar and really getting the brush at the hips? A lot of people start to pull back and wind up with the bar ending up in front of the lifter b/c they didn't stay over the bar long enough or they don't get the brush. Remember it should be slow and controlled until the knees and than explode.
    I've never seen the point in ACTUALLY scraping the bar up my body, so there is no ACTUAL contact at shin, thigh, hips or torso in either my deadlift or clean. I get the weight over midfoot, and leave it at that. I have a full squat clean 3RM of 70kg, and I've PC 90kg for 3 recently, and 105kg two years ago. I've never lost a clean forward.

    I guess the advice I'm getting is:
    1. try some hang power cleans, and actually get that contact.
    2. learn to power clean because it allows use of greater weight.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowjoe View Post
    I've never seen the point in ACTUALLY scraping the bar up my body, so there is no ACTUAL contact at shin, thigh, hips or torso in either my deadlift or clean. I get the weight over midfoot, and leave it at that. I have a full squat clean 3RM of 70kg, and I've PC 90kg for 3 recently, and 105kg two years ago. I've never lost a clean forward.

    I guess the advice I'm getting is:
    1. try some hang power cleans, and actually get that contact.
    2. learn to power clean because it allows use of greater weight.
    A PC becomes a squat clean if you catch it at the bottom instead of the top, so I would expect your squat clean numbers to be higher than your PC.

    Have you ever lost a clean backwards?

    Take a look at the contact in this video, if you haven't already. Ripp has the guy aim for the contact point, directing him higher or lower.
    http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...rCleanJump.wmv

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
    This study on hang power cleans has a plot of power vs %1RM. Power was at a max at 80% of 1RM, though the error bars are so big that it's possible the sweet spot is pretty big, too, and I didn't read how they determined 1RM.

    The PC always seemed the most nebulous to me as far as when to switch from 10 lb jumps to 5 lb jumps, because it's a judgment call whether you missed a lift. I imagine the answer is in the book, and I just need to re-read that section, or use the search function.
    Jeez, for those who haven't the time to read it, 107kg PC is the average and 93-132kg the range for players at a top professional rugby club (data from 2007). For those who pay less attention to rugby than me, Ospreys are the top team from Wales, and provide the backbone of the Welsh national team. I would have imagined a range of 110-145kg as more likely.

    Mucho grazias for the link.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
    A PC becomes a squat clean if you catch it at the bottom instead of the top, so I would expect your squat clean numbers to be higher than your PC.
    In people with bad form and who have little practice on catching in teh squat, PC is often higher than squat clean.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thrasher View Post
    A PC becomes a squat clean if you catch it at the bottom instead of the top, so I would expect your squat clean numbers to be higher than your PC.

    Have you ever lost a clean backwards?

    Take a look at the contact in this video, if you haven't already. Ripp has the guy aim for the contact point, directing him higher or lower.
    http://media.crossfit.com/cf-video/C...rCleanJump.wmv
    I've never lost clean that got to shoulder height forward or backwards.

    I've only done about 40 x 60kg total, and 3 x 70kg (one set) squat cleans. I've probably done a couple of hundred "muscle cleans", and I've never done a power clean.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dastardly View Post
    A muscle clean is quite different, where no (or not much) leg/hip strength is used at all. It is merely shrugged and reverse curled into a rack position. The only type of clean I see being performed and taight by intructors in gyms is the muscle clean, which everyone refers to as a power clean. Which is a little annoying.
    This is incorrect. A muscle clean relies just as much on hip and leg strength as any other clean. If done properly, there is no reverse curling at all. It's just a clean that gets pulled high enough to be received in the standing position.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by slowjoe View Post
    I've never seen the point in ACTUALLY scraping the bar up my body, so there is no ACTUAL contact at shin, thigh, hips or torso in either my deadlift or clean. I get the weight over midfoot, and leave it at that. I have a full squat clean 3RM of 70kg, and I've PC 90kg for 3 recently, and 105kg two years ago. I've never lost a clean forward.
    That's because you don't scrape the bar up your body and contacting the bar with the torso would only serve to slow the bar down as it goes up, or slow you down as you attempt to get under it. If you can catch a clean in a full squat, you can power clean. Starting Strength has an excellent discussion of the power clean, the mechanics, and what should be contacting the bar at the appropriate times.

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