Starting Strength Coach
2k words worth of pictures explain it all:Originally Posted by John2336
Start:
And 1" off the floor:
Note also that the bar has swung back over your mid-foot as well.
It's almost like we've seen this before!
Wait, we have!:
Last edited by Steve Hill; 12-11-2010 at 11:24 PM.
Member
Could you explain what exactly you mean Steve? I didn't put this out here because I'm an expert at this stuff. Are you saying that my starting position needs to look like how I'm situated in the second picture off the floor? From the two pics you showed I can see that I'm sitting further back in the first pic, and then I come further forward as I pull. So I'm guessing you're saying I need to be further forward...is that correct?
Starting Strength Coach
Yes. You are setting up with the bar over your toes, and your back vertical. This puts your hips really low, your knees forward. The problem is that the weight is going to end up over your mid-foot anyway, no matter how you set up. So put it there in the first place. The link I posted in my first critique talks about how to set up properly. Do that. Your start position will look much more like the second photo: arms hanging back at an angle, back more horizontal, bar over mid-foot, and under the scapulae, and hips much higher. As I said, you end up there with the bar 1" off the ground, so start there and eliminate all the monkey motion in between, including the bar travelling horizontally (back towards you) as it comes off the floor.
Member
Thanks for the clarification Steve. I'm going to apply what you said Monday and see if it helps. I'll post a new video in a week or two after practicing it a bit to see if I've improved. I get what your saying now, and will try to unf*** my starting position.
Starting Strength Coach
Don't beat yourself up over it. I think you'll fix it quick enough. If nothing else, maybe look at hiring a SS coach in your area to give you a hand. Really, it would take about 15-20 minutes in my basement to fix this. You've actually got the part down that people have the most frustrating time with (the rack).
Member
I appreciate that Steve, I'll work on the first portion of it and see if I can't correct my mistakes. It's my favorite lift so I'd at least like to get the basics down.
Member
This seems to translate as, "I haven't tried hard enough to use the form described in SS, PP, etc without putting weight on my toes, so I'll just try my own thing."
As Steve wrote, scapula over the bar is the way you set up, because that's where the bar will want to be. All you need to do is look at Steve's second pic as evidence. Do you what you have to do to be comfortable in that position.
Member
No, that translates as: My current set up feels more secure to my back, and having had a serious back injury in the past, one training related and one trauma related, I tend to do what feels safe. My current form felt safe to me, and I thought it was correct. I've watched your squat video, so you can spare me the authoritative tone. This is the first video I've been able to take of it. I'm here for criticism on my form, not my personality. Nor am I here to listen to you opine on whether or not i've read the books, or to have you tell me what I really mean.
But thank you for the advice you gave once you got to the point. I agree that Steve hit the nail on the head, and I will give it a shot monday when I have powercleans again.
I'll post my results with it.
Last edited by John2336; 12-12-2010 at 11:16 AM.
Member
It may "feel" safe to you, but as we've discussed your back and hips make their way to the correct starting position anyway. Not being in control of that process, with a bar swinging around rather than moving straight up, is more dangerous to your back than the correct form that you are afraid of. Don't you agree?
Someone with your post count knows that a huge number of the people that come here have not read the books. If some other guy showed up with clearly incorrect form, without explaining his history of injuries and other information, wouldn't you assume he or she hadn't read the books?
Lastly, my squats are fine now. I hope you improve your cleans, as well.
Member
There's alot going on at the bottom of your squat. I couldnt get away with that much movement, but if you dont feel any ill effects, I guess it's non-consequential, considering it is a max effort. EDIT: Some of it might be fixed by looking down in stead of forward/up.
As for the cleans I'm no expert but I noticed a funny thing: You do start the movement with your shoulders behind the bar, but as soon as it leaves the floor, your scapulae are in front of it. You might get a better pull off the floor getting the position correct from the floor. On the other hand I once was recommended by a good OL-coach to pull the bar "towards my shins" at the beginning of the movement - which is kinda what happens in your pull. But if you are following the SS-technique, you need to get shoulders forward, and your ass higher.
And as mentioned your rack is enviable - and a 195 PC is pretty decent in my book.
Last edited by DV; 12-12-2010 at 05:45 PM.
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