Form Check: Squats

[KNA]

Try high bar squats

What is the benefit of high bar squats? Will they help me to eventually transition to low bar with improved flexibility?

[KNA]

I think there's a simpler way to get this right, as per Justin Lascek's suggestions. Don't think "sit back" or "knees forward" or whatever arbitrary cues to get the knees just right.

Assume the set position - good posture, chest up, big breath, hold it...

Now, think two things:

1) Shove the knees out
2) Weight over midfoot

Because if the weight is over midfoot and the back is held rigid (due to starting from a set position every time), your knees, by definition, will be as forward as they need to be in terms of optimizing the mechanics of the system.

rewatching my video, and from what I feel when I'm squatting, the bar seems to stay over midfoot for the most part. Does that mean I'm not shoving my knees out enough? My stance is wider than shoulder width, so perhaps i should narrow my stance a little and focus on knees out, and this will allow me to get better depth without the buttwink at the bottom?

[blowdpanis]

What is the benefit of high bar squats? Will they help me to eventually transition to low bar with improved flexibility?

Two benefits of high bar squats imho:

1) Feels more natural for a lot of people, largely due to the more comfortable shoulder position (particularly useful for those with limited shoulder flexibility)
2) The ability to do a lot of reps in a set without the chest position collapsing as much, since you're more upright at the top (muscles of the upper back aren't being as actively fatigued by maintaining your top position)

Cues and such should still be the same, though I'd more or less just look straight ahead.

[Carnivroar]

What is the benefit of high bar squats? Will they help me to eventually transition to low bar with improved flexibility?

It might be a more natural movement for you.

High bar is superior to the low bar at the expense of using lower weights because it's harder, but it will make your legs stronger because it isolates it more.

[blowdpanis]

rewatching my video, and from what I feel when I'm squatting, the bar seems to stay over midfoot for the most part. Does that mean I'm not shoving my knees out enough? My stance is wider than shoulder width, so perhaps i should narrow my stance a little and focus on knees out, and this will allow me to get better depth without the buttwink at the bottom?

Just out of curiosity, did you squat before getting into SS?

To me it looks like you've ingrained typical internet squat form advice - sit back, and are thinking about this as the first part of your descent. Even if you aren't actively thinking it, you're certainly doing it, very apparent on the heavier sets. Watch the squat frame by frame at the top of each rep - you shove your hips back and the knees don't appreciably bend until your hips are already back quite a bit.

The fix for this will require being very conscious of how you're breaking at the top of the movement. A common suggestion is the Terribly Useful Block of Wood that's just in front of your foot, and you reach your knees for it and then sit back after they touch it. That may work.

However, I'd be curious if you're consciously sitting back or not, as thinking more "knees out" than "sit back" may correct this automagically.

[KNA]

Just out of curiosity, did you squat before getting into SS?

Nope, never squatted before SS, although this is my second go at it.

For reference, I found this video of me squatting almost a year ago: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdy...check-v3_sport

To me it looks like you've ingrained typical internet squat form advice - sit back, and are thinking about this as the first part of your descent.

Yes, throughout my squat I'm consciously thinking about keeping everything tight, sitting back, and staying on my heels. That's pretty much my thought process. I know there is much more, but that seems to be what my brain is capable of processing with 200 lbs on my back, at this point.

at the top of each rep - you shove your hips back and the knees don't appreciably bend until your hips are already back quite a bit.

I do this on purpose as I was under the impression it was the correct way!
I do recall reading about the terribly useful block of wood, but I never actually used it. I will try and set something like that up next time I squat and see how it feels/looks

[blowdpanis]

If you have somebody squat down without overthinking it, the knees and hips will more or less break simultaneously, which is what we want here. As I said, I think the slight awkwardness you're feeling is the conscious sitting back at the top combined with the SS prescription. It's basically forcing your knees to shoot forward late in the movement in order to actually keep the weight over midfoot.

Don't think about sitting back, just think "knees out" (towards opposite walls) and "balance over midfoot" as you descend. Midfoot is where the weight should truly be, heels is an over-correction that's mainly useful for people who get too onto their toes.

Be sure to do all this, however, after the set position (good posture, chest up, big breath and hold it).

And, if this doesn't fix it, the TUBOW may be a good way of re-patterning the squat.

[KNA]

Thanks for all the advice, it's much appreciated

If you watch this video, http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xdy...check-v3_sport , is this actually closer to what you're talking about in terms of hips and knees breaking at the same time?

[Carlos Daniel]

Yep, I've read the book. No offense taken :P

I think the book states that the knees shouldn't go much further past the toes, if any. So I've actually been working on keeping my knees back, and my shins as straight as possible (perpindicular with the ground). Is this incorrect??

I don't think the book says any such thing, so yes, it's incorrect. I had this exact impression that this is what you were trying to do.

[veryhrm]

I'm going to go in somewhat of a different direction:

Other than the back rounding things look ok, i would say. Room for tweaking yes, but i'm not sure where this whole "omg?! where'd you learn to squat?!" sentiment is coming from. (perhaps i'm reading too much into some of the statements).

i have no idea how anyone is judging depth on this video. You're wearing black pants, the hip crease in the bottom position is being obscured both by the vertical piece of the rack and by the weight plates AND the video is shot from a high vantage point which makes it additionally difficult to eyeball. (have the person filming you take a knee, for example)

SS certainly does talk a lot about keeping your knees from going too far forward. For example p14 fig 2-9 caption "knees should be just slightly in front of the toes" which shows the front-most part of the knee being about an inch in front of the toes in the plane of the foot. He later says more about it but generally one gets the impression that knees too far forward are the bigger problem (due to killing hamstring involvement and all the good stuff having to do with that)

That said, i do think you're keeping your knees too far back by a few inches. And, as several people have mentioned, you're unhinging the hips first and the "very useful block of wood" thing could help you get you timing right.

Now... to keeping the low back in extension ... it's something i've had / am having trouble with and i found that for a long time i wasn't shoving my knees out as much as i thought i was... especially starting from the top. Once i started doing that things got better. I also am doing some hamstring and hip flexor stretches ... but don't know the impact that's had.