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Thread: Kelly Starrett DL setup

  1. #21
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    Starrett is about as f$cking legit as they come. He is unique in his depth of knowledge on these topic. I didn't always think so, particularly when I read him in the CF journal (still a great source of information), because so much dogma was being rammed up my ass... but I've turned the corner and realize how god damned smart the dude is.

    This particular presentation might not be the best for someone coaching new athletes, but for someone who is interested in the real guts of mobility and exercise physiology, there's almost no one better. A video like this might be one of those "coach the coaches" things. I've heard and read Starrett explain really complicated things really simply, but I appreciate the detail he offers here... it gives me information I can apply to all lifts rather than just explaining how to deadlift. It's like that saying, teach a man to fish...

  2. #22
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    I didn't have any trouble following him, but I read overly technical, jargon laden stuff all the time.

    It's important to remember that crossfit has the science, though, you guys. THEY HAVE THE SCIENCE.

    Edit: I actually like the guy's work, and I think he knows his mobility stuff. I just think the lingo is thing.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    Starrett is about as f$cking legit as they come. He is unique in his depth of knowledge on these topic. I didn't always think so, particularly when I read him in the CF journal (still a great source of information), because so much dogma was being rammed up my ass... but I've turned the corner and realize how god damned smart the dude is.

    This particular presentation might not be the best for someone coaching new athletes, but for someone who is interested in the real guts of mobility and exercise physiology, there's almost no one better. A video like this might be one of those "coach the coaches" things. I've heard and read Starrett explain really complicated things really simply, but I appreciate the detail he offers here... it gives me information I can apply to all lifts rather than just explaining how to deadlift. It's like that saying, teach a man to fish...
    I’m not questioning his knowledge so much as his tendency to overcomplicate the way he communicates it. What important details do you get out of the clip? I don’t see him saying anything revelatory. This is fine, since good coaches and instructors often show their quality in their ability to convey and clarify the basics. But my issue is that he waxes too baroque with his reliance on tons of unnecessary jargon and his tendency to waste time talking around basic concepts, which to me is both bad communication and bad instruction.

    Once again, I wouldn’t be surprised if he were great in a one-on-one coaching situation. But he needs the help of a good writer and director for these clips.

  4. #24
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    I see where you're coming from, spar. It's funny because I don't think I ever noticed how ridiculous some of the stuff he says is until this thread ("primacy of position"??); I must have a pretty good filter for whatever dialect of bro-speak it is that he speaks. When I said the video is probably more useful to women, I just meant that women tend to hyper-extend more than men and thus having another source talking about this topic could help to better clarify the line between extension and hyper-extension (which is sometimes hard to tell, I think).

    I do really like the MWOD though, regardless of his style of communicating. I've picked up a bunch of tricks from him.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by spar View Post
    I’m not questioning his knowledge so much as his tendency to overcomplicate the way he communicates it. What important details do you get out of the clip? I don’t see him saying anything revelatory. This is fine, since good coaches and instructors often show their quality in their ability to convey and clarify the basics. But my issue is that he waxes too baroque with his reliance on tons of unnecessary jargon and his tendency to waste time talking around basic concepts, which to me is both bad communication and bad instruction.

    Once again, I wouldn’t be surprised if he were great in a one-on-one coaching situation. But he needs the help of a good writer and director for these clips.
    I have to admit that, like tertius, I'm well practiced in the art of jargon so it doesn't phase me all that much. I happen to know some things about anatomy and physiology, so when I hear a guy talk in particularized language, I sort of pay attention to the way jargon is being implemented and note how certain phrases are employed. The best I can do by way of an explanation is mimic my brain's thought process: "This guy is smarter than me on this topic, he's coined a phrase that he's repeating, he must have grappled with this concept for a while until he was able to put it all into a concise phrase, I want to get the underlying idea that he's driving at." In this way, I'm actually helped by his jargon.

    This video... nothing about this video is particularly earth-shattering to me. But the deceptive fact about really great instruction is that things you don't know are explained with things that you do know in such a seamless fashion that you forgot you didn't understand something. It's once you already know something that you can critique the delivery, and I don't doubt that's your case.

  6. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Patrick View Post
    I have to admit that, like tertius, I'm well practiced in the art of jargon so it doesn't phase me all that much. I happen to know some things about anatomy and physiology, so when I hear a guy talk in particularized language, I sort of pay attention to the way jargon is being implemented and note how certain phrases are employed. The best I can do by way of an explanation is mimic my brain's thought process: "This guy is smarter than me on this topic, he's coined a phrase that he's repeating, he must have grappled with this concept for a while until he was able to put it all into a concise phrase, I want to get the underlying idea that he's driving at." In this way, I'm actually helped by his jargon.

    This video... nothing about this video is particularly earth-shattering to me. But the deceptive fact about really great instruction is that things you don't know are explained with things that you do know in such a seamless fashion that you forgot you didn't understand something. It's once you already know something that you can critique the delivery, and I don't doubt that's your case.
    Except that the example he uses in the video (the elbow) is nonsensical or inapplicable to the back position in the deadlift.

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by spar View Post
    One of the big revelations at Rip's seminar happens in the first 10 minutes, when he establishes that an effective coach is an effective communicator.

    I'm not saying Starrett is a bad coach. I wouldn't know, but a lot of people whom I consider reasonable respect him, so he probably knows his stuff, and his communication style is likely more focused when he works with athletes. And I've gotten some good results from some of his mobility advice.

    But I find that his communication style obfuscates rather than explains, and he gives off the impression of trying really hard to sell me something (even though I know he isn't, really). It drives me crazy. I can glean some sense from this stuff because video has visual cues, but I would hate to have to read a book by him or listen to him as an audio cast. He would benefit from a director/editor, and a lot of us out here in Internet land would benefit if he got one, too, since he probably has some good information to share.

    This kind of techno-babble seems to be a characteristic of CF, though, so maybe it makes sense to those guys, and they're probably the target audience after all.
    Could not agree more.

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Thomas Jones View Post
    Except that the example he uses in the video (the elbow) is nonsensical or inapplicable to the back position in the deadlift.
    Wow, I very strongly disagree. The elbow isn't "the" example in the video. He offers an example, generalizes, and then explain how the same lesson applies to deadlift mechanics. I don't think you're misrepresenting the video, I think we just took vastly different things away from it.

  9. #29
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    Just got around to watching this video. My reaction in the first 15 seconds: Why coin "overpressure"? Does anyone else say this? If so, my bad. But is "hyperextension" or "overly hard extension" not adequate? When I watch his videos, I find myself constantly translating his novel language into existing phraseology that other people actually use and which seems to me to be perfectly adequate. Distracting and unnecessary as far as I'm concerned. A matter of taste I guess.

    EDIT: I disagree with the substance of the video as well. He is saying that it is bad or at least suboptimal to wait until getting down there to tighten up. Hard to tell, but he seems to think this is because the erectors have to work concentrically to set the back in position at the bottom, and if you do this at the bottom it's hard to engage the abs, so you end up in "overpressure", and so on. So, tighten up at the top before reaching down, so all the erectors do is work isometrically, and we can counter them with the abs before hinging down. But there is nothing wrong with the erectors working concentrically, as long as one isn't using them to act on a heavy load, ie trying to straighten out a cat-backed deadlift. And it's not clear to me that it's actually difficult to engage the abs in concert with the erectors at the bottom.

    This video is a solution in search of a problem. Lots of his other stuff is helpful though.

    EDIT #2: And I see that Spar already said all of the above in post #12.
    Last edited by Bronan the Barbarian; 09-20-2011 at 09:48 AM.

  10. #30
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    I can't get my back into extension using Rip's method so I will give this a try today.

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