Squat knee position: No TUBOW tilt vs. being set 1/3 down

[JayvH]

Your shins are vertical for virtually all reps in both sets. What happened?

"What happened?" in relation to which event? Do you think the shins are more vertical than in the sets ,which I showed let's say on page 5 of this thread? I thought that since I had my training session with bhara the shins were always in this position because I assume this is their correct position due to my anthropometry. Can you give me a hint which of my videos show a correct bottom position?

Let me ask you something; have you ever done the bottom position exercise without the bar in order to figure out what your back angle and knee position needs to be in order to get correct depth?

Well I'm in this position every workout before I start my warmup sets with the empty bar. But you can get in almost every depth you wish for in this position depending on the back angle you set. So what would you suggest?

[JayvH]

Sorry, but I have to bump this up again.

@Satch: Could you give me more details?

[Satch12879]

I'm not a coach, so caveat emptor. For real comfort, you might want to put a form check in the Staff Coaches' Q&A. Be sure, though, to read and mind the sticky about form check videos. I dare not attempt to incite Hill or Campitelli's wrath by ignoring it.

That being said, the way the squat is taught in our model, the knees track over the toes and stop with the knee just a little bit past the toes. We do this to keep tension on the hamstrings which are initially tensed proximally by the closed hip angle. Too forward a knee results in loss of tension on the distal end of the hamstring.

I can't tell precisely what you mean by your particular anthropometry; are you short torsoed, long torsoed, short shinned, long shinned, short femured, long femured? There's a good drawing in SSBBT3 on Page 51 on the differences in the various angles based on different anthropometries. Short torsos with long femurs need a more horizontal back angle and a more forward shin/long torsos and short femurs need the opposite.

Your earlier squats had your knees a little bit over your toes and you got depth.

The goal is to break at the hips and knees together. Set your knees slightly out over your toes and keep them there. Then you sit back to depth. The ascent is the reverse of this movement.

The reason I mentioned the bottom position, is that in the TUBOW video (here) Milstein and Ball state that the first step in using the TUBOW is to get into the bottom position and find depth. The location of your knees in the bottom will dictate where the TUBOW should be placed. The other purpose of the bottom position is to set your back angle. Your squat at the bottom with weight on the bar should be the same as at the bottom without the bar.

In this last video, I see you as very agressively horizontal with your back angle, and with shins that basically do not move. I personally don't think these are necessary if a less horizontal back angle and slightly more forward knees will get your depth and keep you in balance over the mid-foot. It will also help you generate better hip drive out of the hole.

Sorry for the rather unorganized response, but I think I was able to hit all the various areas of clarification you need.

[JayvH]

Thank you. Yes my knees were more forward in the early videos but I also could not get them to stay in this position slightly in front of the toes whatsoever. The only thing stopping this was to get a personal appointment with fellow user bhara who showed me my biggest flaw, which was still not leaning over enough. On some of my videos you could see, that when I push my knees into the old position the get pulled back, when lean over more into the position where they are now. Recently I tried to simplify my way downwards by only focussing on an even weight distribution on the sole of my feet and "bar over midfoot". And only this approach of a more horizontal back angle finally got me the tension in the posterior chain, so I thought I'm probably on the right way, since I never could this right. I remember the book saying, that the knee cap could be from slightly behind the toes up to 3 or 4 inches in front of them. I'm not really sure, if the length of my femur, tibia and torso would put me, cause I couldn't find a table anywhere what is a normal range.

Just in case: tibia (ankle to knee) is 45 cm, femur (knee to crotch) measured on the inner leg is 35 cm and torso (anterior superior iliac spine) to shoulders is about 50 cm.

But why would a more forward knee (and so more vertical back) help my hip drive? The stretch of the posterior chain would be less and more quads would be involved, wouldn't it?

I eventually will do a check video in the Coaches section, but I bothered Tom for a good part of early 2015, I will get some weight on the bar first