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Thread: Knee under the bar in DL

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by MBasic View Post
    Very, very interesting, thank you!! I could not have imagined this would be happening.
    His knees do indeed dart backwards as the bar approaches from above. It's right there in the vid. BUT then his shins remain mostly vertical until the barbell hits the ground! He breaks contact with his shins on the way down. It's plainly visible, no two ways about it, he is not keeping the bar in contact with his shins on the negative. On each rep he moves his shins forward to the bar after putting it down and before lifting it again. Should I be doing THAT??
    brkriete, what do you think of the point at 1:15, e.g., where his knees dart back as the bar goes past and forward again under it? I may have to slow it down to see what's happening with his hips as his knees dart backwards.
    I am also aware that very experienced lifters' forms when lifting for themselves are not necessarily examples for me to follow, but MBasic posted this in reply to my request. What I gather from it is that, yes, my knees may dart backward from under the bar on the negative, but they don't have to dart forward again if it's OK to break contact between the bar and my shins.
    And regardless, model or not, this vid is motivation!

    -Chuckk

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckkh View Post
    Believe it or not, my spine stays far more neutral in a split squat and I have no pain afterwards. There is definitely no lumbar kyphosis. I suspect it is also helping to stretch my hip muscles, as I found I can stretch them more, and more stably, since then. Posterior pelvic tilt/ lumbar flexion in squat is for another thread, but I have been stretching several ways and I can tell you that, if I try to use the squat as a stretch, or to stretch as illustrated in SS, with elbows pushing knees apart at the bottom, I feel no pull whatsoever, nothing, in my hamstrings, and a whole lot of tension in my adductors.
    Thanks for the advice, but so far split squats feel quite good... everywhere above my quads.

    -Chuckk
    Just pay your gym dues.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    He did look very bendy at :42. Very bendy indeed. I'm sure 560x5 made a lot of noise.



    Model video was provided above. You have shown no illustration.

    Edit: you provided an edit, so will I. I think you're over thinking it. I don't think your thighs are the thickest in the world, much less this forum. Do you have a video of your deadlift? There is obviously something janky in your mechanics.
    Well, I like to think. I'm trying to figure out what *should* happen, an ideal deadlift. I don't have a vid yet, but I detect something questionable in the many descriptions I've seen which don't account for the knee between lockout and the bar at knee level. Either the bar breaks contact OR the knee is under it. Or, as I've managed to avoid so far, the lifter falls over... :P

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckkh View Post
    BUT then his shins remain mostly vertical until the barbell hits the ground! He breaks contact with his shins on the way down. It's plainly visible, no two ways about it, he is not keeping the bar in contact with his shins on the negative. On each rep he moves his shins forward to the bar after putting it down and before lifting it again. Should I be doing THAT??
    You don't need to keep the bar in contact with your shins on the way down. No one does this.

    And yes, you should bring your shins to the bar at the start of each pull. This is a very basic step.

    Thinking about darting your knees backwards or whatever is not useful. I've never hit my knees on the way up. I've probably hit them on the way down early on when I was learning to deadlift, but I learned how not to do that again.

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckkh View Post
    Very, very interesting, thank you!! I could not have imagined this would be happening.
    His knees do indeed dart backwards as the bar approaches from above. It's right there in the vid. BUT then his shins remain mostly vertical until the barbell hits the ground! He breaks contact with his shins on the way down. It's plainly visible, no two ways about it, he is not keeping the bar in contact with his shins on the negative. On each rep he moves his shins forward to the bar after putting it down and before lifting it again. Should I be doing THAT??
    brkriete, what do you think of the point at 1:15, e.g., where his knees dart back as the bar goes past and forward again under it? I may have to slow it down to see what's happening with his hips as his knees dart backwards.
    I am also aware that very experienced lifters' forms when lifting for themselves are not necessarily examples for me to follow, but MBasic posted this in reply to my request. What I gather from it is that, yes, my knees may dart backward from under the bar on the negative, but they don't have to dart forward again if it's OK to break contact between the bar and my shins.
    And regardless, model or not, this vid is motivation!

    -Chuckk
    I think you're overthinking the "negative" portion of the deadlift. The deadlift really doesn't have an eccentric or negative phase. The book gives a game plan as a means to set the bar down in a way that won't include crashing load into the top of your knees. Don't think about intentionally darting your knees back that little bit. Yes, you should be resetting and bringing your shins to the bar on every rep.

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisd View Post
    Chuckkh, I believe you are overlooking the counterweight effect of holding a barbell in the hands. At light weights, there is a tendency to catch the bar on the knee if care is not taken to avoid this, i.e break first at the hips, lower the bar past the knee, bend the knee (sort of). At higher weights, this tends to sort itself out.

    I hope it does. I guess it must, if so many people do it correctly and never have this problem. I can see in vids of heavy lifts that, yes, it happens pretty fast and is largely the lifter knowing how to react to the momentum of the bar, not necessarily putting much effort into controlling it.
    I've seen in other places people recommending sumo barbell DL for those with problematic backs. What do y'all think of that one? Less knee flexion, less altitude. I found it a little tempting to "squat my deadlift" from sumo position, but nothing a little attention won't fix.
    Tomorrow's DL day, one way or another...

    -Chuckk

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    I think you're overthinking the "negative" portion of the deadlift. The deadlift really doesn't have an eccentric or negative phase. The book gives a game plan as a means to set the bar down in a way that won't include crashing load into the top of your knees. Don't think about intentionally darting your knees back that little bit. Yes, you should be resetting and bringing your shins to the bar on every rep.
    I don't know what I should worry about more - my intervertebral discs or my knees. I don't think a little weight on my patella will rip my meniscus (so far it's been from twisting and, of course, degeneration), but not being careful enough with my lumbar discs is going to fuck me up for real one of these days. So Rip says over and over that performing these lifts "correctly" is perfectly safe, well, I want to be able to say I always did them correctly.
    What surprised me in this vid was that bringing his shins to the bar after a rep was necessary, I mean, that means they were not still touching the bar at the end, which breaks the rules I've seen so far - but seems to make sense.

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  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckkh View Post
    I don't know what I should worry about more - my intervertebral discs or my knees. I don't think a little weight on my patella will rip my meniscus (so far it's been from twisting and, of course, degeneration), but not being careful enough with my lumbar discs is going to fuck me up for real one of these days. So Rip says over and over that performing these lifts "correctly" is perfectly safe, well, I want to be able to say I always did them correctly.
    What surprised me in this vid was that bringing his shins to the bar after a rep was necessary, I mean, that means they were not still touching the bar at the end, which breaks the rules I've seen so far - but seems to make sense.
    Bar stays in contact on the way up. On the way down, don't slam the bar into your knees and bring it down with hip flexion, not lumbar flexion.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeJ View Post
    Just pay your gym dues.
    As in money? I do. As in time and experience? I'm in the process of doing that, too, but "just" doing that without homework lands lots of people in hospitals and PT.

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