Lower back position problems and the 5-step deadlift

[AndyG]

I've just started Starting Strength (I've done 3 workouts), and I'm having some trouble getting my low back into extension at the bottom of the deadlift. I see plenty of form check videos with similar problems, and often the advice is to do the 5 steps in order.

Now, in SSBBT the advice for lifters who can voluntarily extend their lower back, but who can't do it at the bottom of the deadlift, is to put the back into position whilst standing upright, then bend until you notice the lower back lose position, then move up until the position is fixed, then carry on down a little farther. Repeating this until you can reach the bar. My question is, is the idea to do this as part of Step 2: Gripping the bar without bending the knees?

If the answer is yes, is there anything else I can vary besides foot width, foot angle and knee-shove-out-ness, in order to get to the bottom with a correctly positioned back? I have not yet found a combination of those three variables which let me get my back anywhere near position. Bending my knees helps somewhat, but then I'm out of order.

[Jeff Illingworth]

Post a form check, that'll help see what will work well for you. At the end of the day, you want your back in extension. The deadlift is "easier" if you can follow the 5-step process, but if you have to make an adjustment in order to get your back set, that's fine - but you still need to have the bar in the right position relative to your center of mass.

[David Geiger]

Posting a video of your 5 step set up would be helpful to diagnosing your problem. Your back will not be fully set until after step 4, when you squeeze up your chest to get your back tight.

[AndyG]

Yesterday I did three of my deadlift warm up sets with the 5 step method and the last two warm ups and the work set using the method to set your lower back before you bend at the hips. In my view, the back position, shoulder position, and pull are much improved over the last set, but obviously still not perfect.

Here's the heaviest 5-step set from yesterday, and here's the work set. (Turn your audio down - there's only nasty gym radio on the recording)

I could definitely feel my lower back losing strength on the last few reps of the work set - Just not responding when I tried to contract it under load. Before that my lower back was better. I'd be grateful for any advice.

[Satch12879]

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[Jeff Illingworth]

Yuo need to be a little closer to the bar. As you pull, pull back and keep the bar to your legs. Don't take sooooo long to put the bar down at each rep, you're probably wearing your back out more on that than the actual lift.

Where do you live?

[Adam Franklin]

So the 37kg set was not heavy enough for you to lift your chest against to actually set your back IMO. I would like to see you do the 5 step setup with a work weight. The whole "set your back at the top" KStarr deadlift doesn't work, unless you are going to lift you chest up against the bar pre pull (our step 4), so why bother. Plus, most don't have the hamstring extensibility to do this correctly anyways.

All that being said, you end up in a pretty good position pre pull on your work set, you just take forever to get there! Once you pull, you are pulling around your knees. Think about driving your feet into the ground with your quads and keeping the shoulders OUT OVER THE BAR longer. Lastly, these look light. Are you just starting out, coming back from a back injury, etc...?

[timelinex]

If you are "almost there", and the issue is flexibility, do light/medium weight RDL's before your deadlifts. They work like magic to stretch you out enough to get into position. You can stand on a step if you want to stretch out further.

BTW, I have the same problem as you and just saw an SSC. Unfortunately there are no magic fixes. We just have to keep working on our flexibility and do our best. I wasn't "almost there", but rather very far from there. RDl's helped immensely.

Here is a thread I recently started about this topic:

http://startingstrength.com/resource...dlift-ohp.html

[AndyG]

Yuo need to be a little closer to the bar. As you pull, pull back and keep the bar to your legs. Don't take sooooo long to put the bar down at each rep, you're probably wearing your back out more on that than the actual lift.

Right, I'll try and get closer. These were me trying a little farther back than in my previous set. I'm still trying to learn the correct putting down technique, hence the slowness. This video is my fourth ever time holding a barbell, so I'm still learning.

Where do you live?

Manchester, UK. No SS coaches nearby. I do plan to go and see Carl in London sometime soon.

[AndyG]

So the 37kg set was not heavy enough for you to lift your chest against to actually set your back IMO. I would like to see you do the 5 step setup with a work weight. The whole "set your back at the top" KStarr deadlift doesn't work, unless you are going to lift you chest up against the bar pre pull (our step 4), so why bother. Plus, most don't have the hamstring extensibility to do this correctly anyways.

I felt like this deadlift technique was somewhat reliant on the weight being heavy. I only have the book to go on, and I don't recall that coming up. Thanks for clearing that up.

All that being said, you end up in a pretty good position pre pull on your work set, you just take forever to get there! Once you pull, you are pulling around your knees. Think about driving your feet into the ground with your quads and keeping the shoulders OUT OVER THE BAR longer. Lastly, these look light. Are you just starting out, coming back from a back injury, etc...?

Those videos were from my 4th SS workout, which was my 4th ever barbell workout. Just me and a book, so it's taking me a while to check everything's correct (sorry that makes for long videos...) I think these probably are too light. I did no increment vs my last session to focus on technique. I'm planning to add 7-8kg per workout for the next couple of weeks. My plan is to do a slightly longer Linear Progression so that I get the technique right. Such is the cost of no SSC nearby.

Thanks for the advice.