Squat/Deadlift form check with regard to spine neutrality

[Sam]

Hi everyone, and thanks a lot for providing a platform to give feedback to the people who need it.

Quick history: I have read SS end to end twice, and have recorded myself with the goal of perfecting my form more than 15 times for both deadlift and squat over a timespan of 3 months. I have also read the guidelines for posting to this technique forum and have tried to follow them whenever they were applicable. Now I think my form is perfect to my own eyes, that's why I need feedback, because I'm unable to see faults anymore.

But since I'm mostly worried about faults which cause serious injuries, I'd like to focus on spine neutrality in my deadlift and (excessive) lumbar flexion in my squat. Recently I've had pain in my lumbar area which I think is in the muscles of the area not the spine itself but I'm still worried. I do understand that my back muscles including my lumbar muscles hold my spine in place by contracting and resisting the gravity which would otherwise flex my whole spine and therefore they're trained and some degree of muscle fibers breakdown is expected, but again, I don't know if my pain is the normal expected one or it's because of bad form.

Therefore, in the videos, I've been recording from the side only because I'm only interested in my spine neutrality. So with that in mind, I'd appreciate if you can confirm if my form is correct with regard to my spine, or guide me if I'm wrong.

Squat: YouTube
Deadlift: YouTube

[Royce Nichols]

Do you have access to bigger diameter plates or bumper plates for your deadlift?

Don’t pause in the bottom of your squat just get to depth and come right back up

[Sam]

Thanks for your reply.

Unfortunately there’s no bigger diameter plates in our gym, that’s why I have temporarily settled for deadlifting in the power rack which puts the bar higher than on the floor, until my weight gets heavy enough to use 25kg plates which are even higher than the rack. May I ask why you asked? Is it causing slight inneutrality in my spine?

Alright, will focus on not pausing at the bottom in the future. Any thoughts on whether or not I have exessive lumbar flexion?

[Adam Franklin]

In your squat, I wouldn't say I see excessive lumbar flexion, but there is a bit of rounding in the bottom. I can't see your bar position, but I can see that your knees are too far past your toes and your torso too vertical of these to be low bar squats.

As you start your descent, push your knees out (away from each other), push the hips back, and point the chest toward the ground. Think about sitting in a chair that is about 3 feet behind you; you have to reach your butt BACK to sit in it. This will make your torso more horizontal than your are use to.

For the deadlift, there's a lot of weird stuff going on, mostly caused by the bar not being ~9 inches off of the ground. Get creative, find a way to elevate the bar to the appropriate height. Then, break the bar off of the ground by extending the knees (push the ground away from you), not by pulling up on the bar (opening at the hips first). But yes, your back looks to be in extension.

[Cambridge93]

In your squat, I wouldn't say I see excessive lumbar flexion, but there is a bit of rounding in the bottom. I can't see your bar position, but I can see that your knees are too far past your toes and your torso too vertical of these to be low bar squats.

Really? I ask because if that's rounding, I am suddenly very concerned about having excessive lumbar flexion (since I'm noticeably worse).

It's hard to tell from this side view, but it looks to me like his back is pretty straight and he's just going from extension to neutral. Am I crazy?

[Adam Franklin]

Really? I ask because if that's rounding, I am suddenly very concerned about having excessive lumbar flexion (since I'm noticeably worse).

It's hard to tell from this side view, but it looks to me like his back is pretty straight and he's just going from extension to neutral. Am I crazy?

Step back from the ledge, it will be okay!

There is very minor movement in the lumbar, and it's only there because these are essentially high bar squats. This will go away when the OP gets more horizontal, cuts the excessive depth.

[Sam]

In your squat, I wouldn't say I see excessive lumbar flexion, but there is a bit of rounding in the bottom. I can't see your bar position, but I can see that your knees are too far past your toes and your torso too vertical of these to be low bar squats.

As you start your descent, push your knees out (away from each other), push the hips back, and point the chest toward the ground. Think about sitting in a chair that is about 3 feet behind you; you have to reach your butt BACK to sit in it. This will make your torso more horizontal than your are use to.

For the deadlift, there's a lot of weird stuff going on, mostly caused by the bar not being ~9 inches off of the ground. Get creative, find a way to elevate the bar to the appropriate height. Then, break the bar off of the ground by extending the knees (push the ground away from you), not by pulling up on the bar (opening at the hips first). But yes, your back looks to be in extension.

For the squat: Alright. Since you mentioned you don't see excessive lumbar flexion, and since my understanding about spine neutrality (coming from YouTube for example and few other resources) is that spine neutrality is not a fixed position but rather a range, I should assume this extent of lumbar rounding is safe, am I correct?

About the knees too far past the toes and torso angle, you're absolutely right. I was under the wrong assumption that even if the knees go bit too far from the toe, as long as the bar is over the middle of the foot, I'm doing it correctly. In my next training session, I'll push my knees out, hips back, and point my 'nipple towards the ground', as Mark says
1.jpg

For the deadlift: I'll get the height correct next time, but about pulling, I don't think what you're suggesting is something I've read in SS or anywhere else, and in the book, in Figure 4-19, you can see that clearly the hips extend first in the pulling phase of deadlift, not the knees. Could you give me the page in SS or from where you're suggesting to do the opposite?
2.jpg

Also, again, I'm assuming my back being in extension (not hyper or flexion) is safe, correct me if I'm wrong.

[Adam Franklin]

Squat:
Your back will be fine, but the little bit of lumbar movement will go away when you low bar squat correctly. Also, note that bar path is not a good metric for relatively light squats (compared to your body weight). The center of mass (COM) of the barbell-lifter system should be over the bar in ALL cases, which is not necessarily the same thing as the bar. For example, during a 2x body weight squat, the COM of the lifter-barbell system can be approximated as the bar. However, at lighter weights relative to bodyweight, the COM of the entire system is closer to the COM of your body, which is approximated by the space between the knees and hips. All that being said, I would argue that you are on your heals in the screen shot above (with the blue line). This too will be fixed by low bar squatting.

Deadlift:
Don't confuse cueing with describing the mechanics of the lift. I'm cueing your to push the floor away by extending the knees in order to maintain a more constant back angle off of the floor. What will ACTUALLY happen is that your hips will open SLIGHTLY off of the floor, keeping the back angle constant. Compare the back angles of the two stick figures in the graphic you used above. The hips open (slightly), but the back angle remains fairly constant. This is because the scapulae MUST remain over the bar until just before lockout.

I'm cueing you to leg press the floor away because you need to stay out over the bar longer.