Red lighted lift - correct call?

[johnnys]

My deadlift opener at 435lbs. was redlighted for jumping the "down" command. Here's a slow-mo of the lift, and I think it shows the judge's hand going down with a short gap before the verbal command, and me starting down in between. The relevant rule language appears to be "The lifter shall stay in this erect position with shoulders back and hips and knees locked until the center referee’s signal consisting of a downward motion of the hand and the verbal command 'DOWN'".

I felt wobbly at the top (on my toes too much, maybe) and wasn't sure what happened, so I didn't complain or review video. It did impact my total, as I'd planned my 2nd at 485 hoping for a 3rd at 500, and the miss made me go more conservative. I wound up getting 485 as my 3rd attempt for a 1230 meet PR. No world records at stake and the meet was very well run and judged overall, so this is just an interesting rule interpretation thing.

Full rules are here for the fed.

Were red lights correct since I didn't wait for the verbal command?

[Adam Skillin]

My deadlift opener at 435lbs. was redlighted for jumping the "down" command. Here's a slow-mo of the lift, and I think it shows the judge's hand going down with a short gap before the verbal command, and me starting down in between. The relevant rule language appears to be "The lifter shall stay in this erect position with shoulders back and hips and knees locked until the center referee’s signal consisting of a downward motion of the hand and the verbal command 'DOWN'".

I felt wobbly at the top (on my toes too much, maybe) and wasn't sure what happened, so I didn't complain or review video. It did impact my total, as I'd planned my 2nd at 485 hoping for a 3rd at 500, and the miss made me go more conservative. I wound up getting 485 as my 3rd attempt for a 1230 meet PR. No world records at stake and the meet was very well run and judged overall, so this is just an interesting rule interpretation thing.

Full rules are here for the fed.

Were red lights correct since I didn't wait for the verbal command?

I see what you're saying. Did you notice that your heels came off the floor before his hand started moving down?

[johnnys]

I see what you're saying. Did you notice that your heels came off the floor before his hand started moving down?

I didn't - I guess that was the "wobble" I felt. Nothing in the rule about feet though. Excellent catch.

[crookedfinger]

I didn't - I guess that was the "wobble" I felt. Nothing in the rule about feet though. Excellent catch.

Not that it matters, but I don't think you should have been red lighted based on the bar lowering, seems real close and it wasn't like you weren't in control of the bar/weight throughout the entire lift. I'd call it a bad call.

In other feds the heels may have gotten you a red light.

[BBB]

It did look like you jumped the gun a bit... the judge just initiated the hand movement and saying the command and you started going down. Probably a bit strict for a local event, but at least you know what to expect. No worries, there's always next time

[johnnys]

In other feds the heels may have gotten you a red light.

Interesting- I looked at USAPL’s rules. They say “Rocking of the feet between ball and heel is permitted. Foot movement after the “down” command will not be cause for failure.”

Since I had foot movement BEFORE the “down”, it’s unclear, but maybe the “rocking” part means I’d have been ok in USAPL.

I also like that USAPL rules say that lifters get the benefit of the doubt - I’m a swimming judge and USA Swimming really emphasizes that approach.

Sorry if this is too much parsing words, it’s what I do for a living.

[crookedfinger]

Interesting- I looked at USAPL’s rules. They say “Rocking of the feet between ball and heel is permitted. Foot movement after the “down” command will not be cause for failure.”

Since I had foot movement BEFORE the “down”, it’s unclear, but maybe the “rocking” part means I’d have been ok in USAPL.

I also like that USAPL rules say that lifters get the benefit of the doubt

You are correct. That being said, I have seen numerous lifters in USAPL events miss a lift because the "rocking of the feet" occurred and the judge interpreted the movement to have not just been up and down, but a slight side ways motion was detected. Once the foot leaves the floor, its just another variable that leads to possible misread and a DQ of the lift.

But again, in my opinion, you shouldn't have been redlighted and if I was coaching you at the meet I would have challenged the call. That being said, 2 judges redlighted so....

[johnnys]

You are correct. That being said, I have seen numerous lifters in USAPL events miss a lift because the "rocking of the feet" occurred and the judge interpreted the movement to have not just been up and down, but a slight side ways motion was detected. Once the foot leaves the floor, its just another variable that leads to possible misread and a DQ of the lift.

But again, in my opinion, you shouldn't have been redlighted and if I was coaching you at the meet I would have challenged the call. That being said, 2 judges redlighted so....

I attended (as spectator) a USAPL meet and was baffled by some of the judging- squat depth among others- so I believe you on interpretations.

I do think it’s a fair interpretation of the RPS rule that the bar can’t move down until the judge gives both the hand and vocal signal.

The front judge gave me a green light, so I suspect the delay between voice and hand was unintentional on his part, and the side judges were looking at me and reacting to the voice.

[Greg Ruhl]

The side judges are staring at you, not the head judge's hand. They saw you move downward prior to the verbal command hitting their ears.