Shoulder pain during the Squat - bar seems to lay uneven on my back

[Mattias Damsgaard]

Have been doing the Starting Strength for about three months now, but I've had a lot of problems with my squad. At first my shoulders hurt and sometimes also my elbows. Tried not bringing my elbows up too much, but that led to pain in my biceps which I think maybe was biceps tendonitis after having read on this forum. I think my arms maybe were too much under the bar, and that caused the pain (I could feel a pump in my bicep just by lifting the bar alone), so I've begin lifting my elbows a little bit more up now, but not as much as originally. I've also really narrowed my grip as much as possible. But now I get shoulder pain again.

When I stand up with the bar resting on what I think is the right place (it feels like a shelf), it seems to me that the bar is a bit uneven. It both tilts a bit down in the right side, but I also think that side maybe tilts slightly more forward than the other side. I've read and watched your videos about placement and all that stuff. I've tried experimenting by putting the bar higher and lower, because maybe it wasn't laying in the right place, but this seems to be the only place where it feel right and stable. I've tried everything to correct the tilting of the bar, by making sure I take the bar with the same distance between my hands and in the middle and all that stuff, but it almost always seems to end up getting uneven.

On another note, I also seem to get a little bit of pain in my lower back sometimes. I don't know if you can see the cause of this also and just generally everything you think is wrong with my form?

Thanks a lot.

Video of my squat:
YouTube

[Devyn Stewart]

I've experienced this as well. In fact, I'm dealing with it right now. In my experience, this is caused mostly by two things:

1) Standing up too straight and not allowing your back to hold the weight. Lean forward a bit more before you squat. You would be able to tell if this was or wasn't the problem.

2) My left shoulder tends to lose its retraction throughout a set. The video showed that the bar was fairly symmetrical, but the weight didn't seem heavy. Record a set with heavy weights, and I'll bet you lose tightness/retraction in the shoulder that is experiencing pain.

Hope this helps!

[Dillon Spencer]

There's a lot going on here, starting with the terrible video. If you want a real form check, read the sticky at the top of the board, and get your buddy to stand still haha

Dev is right. From this video your bar position looks pretty okay, and from my non-coach perspective I don't see you doing anything with your wrists or elbows that should be causing you pain. Like he said though, the weight looks light seeing as how you did an easy eight reps with it. If you want a real form check give us a set of five with a working weight.

That being said, despite the light weight, I don't know if a single one of these squats made it to depth. The angle sucks for gauging depth, but I'm pretty confident these were all high. Turn your toes out more so you can get your knees out further. Stop staring at yourself in the mirror. Your back angle is far too vertical. Look at the ground a few feet in front of you, bend over as soon as you start your squat, and stay bent over as you drive your hips up out of the hole. There's no hip drive to be seen here, even at this light weight.

I don't like to be the guy that asks "Have you even read the book?" because I think it comes off as condescending and I'd rather try to be helpful, but... have you? There's just so much going on with the form checks you just posted, that if you have read it, you need to review it. You also say you've been "doing Starting Strength" for 3 months, but you're showing sets of 7 on the bench and sets of 8 on the squat. Benefit of the doubt it's just for form check purposes, but still.

More generally, and I want to say this somewhat delicately, it looks like you might need to get used to the idea of this shit being hard. Squatting below parallel with a weight you find heavy is HARD. You're not even doing it with a light weight, and don't seem to be trying too hard to get there either. You showed us a set of 7 on the bench at 115 that didn't slow down even a little bit, but you haven't been able to break 135? Seems hard to believe. The effort required to set your back on the deadlift should show you visibly straining before the weight even breaks the floor. Keeping it set once it does is even harder. You weren't showing it. The mental effort can be as challenging as the physical. Embrace it!

[Mattias Damsgaard]

Yes, I have read the book, but I understand how you got there.

This video is the first time I see myself squat, and it's easy to see it doesn't look anything like it should. But the problem is, I haven't been able to see myself doing the squat, and I'm also pretty sure, my squat didn't look like this two months ago. The problem is, I have had a bit of problems with my squat. So I train, feel something wrong, search here on the forum, find a good answer and change it next time. Which suddenly had led to a totally wrong movement.

I've always squated a lot deeper, but I have had groin pain for some time now, and read I should be careful going too low. I've just started not going so low, but I can see that this is too low. And the seven reps was just for you to have more to judge by.

My squat is still under a lot of progression regarding the learning of the movement, and seeing this video of myself definitely helped me correcting some of the mistakes. But there's still this mistake with the arms that I don't know what to do about!

Did 175 lbs the other day, and it's not because it's that hard at all, but my arms hurt so bad afterwards, and it ruins both my bench press and press. So I'm stuck at low squat weights until this is fixed. I think that my one side is maybe more tight than the other. It seems the one side the elbow can move a lot bore back than the other, and this maybe creates the uneven bar on my back. Could this maybe be the cause of this pain?

[Mattias Damsgaard]

Bump.

[Dillon Spencer]

Your video is almost a month old. Did you try any of the suggestions you got? You've obviously squatted since. A new video would be helpful.

[Mattias Damsgaard]

I have re-read the book and was finally able to get some new videos.

I think I'm keeping the bar at the right place, as I have tried to lay it every other place, and nothing feels like "the shelf" more than where it is on the pictures and videos. It's the same placement I've used for the last couple of months. It still hurts like every time I go to 80 kgs and beyond, sometimes in the shoulder, other times in the middle area between the forearm and upper arm (bicep tendonitis?). It feels like I'm carrying the weight off the bar with my scapula, if that makes any sense. I try to lift my chest as high as possible, and also lift elbows up. I've tried experiencing how high I lift my elbows, with no positive result. IMG_3155.jpg

I'm aware I still need to learn a lot regarding my squat form, and I'm working on it, but this issue with my arms I can't seem to find a solution to. Both of these video btw caused pain in my left shoulder. Not a lot of pain, but still so I felt it a little bit during the Bench Press.

[Justin Smale]

Take this for what it's worth since I am by no means a SSC, but this doesn't look like a solid shelf to me:
Pic.jpg

This is at the top of your 3rd rep, at the 26 second mark of your second video. Also, looking at that second video after you finish your last rep and are putting it back into the rack, it really looks like the bar isn't sitting at a point of balance on that shelf. I'm specifically looking at your right shoulder here, the bar doesn't look like it's sitting on anything solid here. My (again uneducated) guess is you're not getting your back tight enough or your bar isn't sitting exactly where you think it is. I'm lead to believe here that you're letting your arms take a lot of the load (despite the fact that your grip looks decent. Your wrists aren't under any crazy flexion, but my guess is you're working too hard with your arms to keep the bar "clamped" onto your back. This screenshot also makes me think that might also be because you're standing up too straight, which might be causing the bar to slide down if my first guess was incorrect about your back being to loose and your shelf being weak. Either way, my guess would be: bar is in the wrong spot/your back isn't tight enough/standing up too much > bar sliding off shelf > arms working overtime to keep bar on back > shoulder/elbow pain > ? > profit.

I personally have found these videos super helpful because you get to see a wide variety of people and body types be corrected on common form issues.



Also, "shoulder pain" in this case seems vague to me. When I first started low bar squatting after years of high bar, getting into position was super uncomfortable, bordering on painful. Once I was stretched out and I was getting into my worksets the pain would go away mostly. Same thing with the elbows. If it hurts getting under an unloaded bar, it could be because you've got some mobility issues and your body is just protesting the position. If the pain happens/worsens during your sets, I'm guessing your arms are taking the load (and if it is pain and not discomfort - remember a good low bar position is probably not going to be comfortable but shouldn't be painful).

If it is mobility, look up the Paul Horn stretch on YouTube as it's a lifesaver. Also, if it's a mobility issue (and you're able to go to the gym everyday) just get your shoulders stretched out and into good position with an unloaded bar everyday if you can (that's helped me immensly).

And another thing......take 5 minutes to get yourself certified here and post to the SSC forum. It costs nothing and they can pick out things a lot of people on the Technique forum can't (myself most definitely included in that group).

[Nockian]

It hurts everytime for me, but it gets better with repetition. It's not meant to be comfortable. Looks like the bar is in the right position with straight wrists and upper back seems good. I would watch your descents, you are tucking and that means hamstrings going slack at the bottom losing the stretch which makes it harder to come out of the hole-I can't tell from the angle, but without the stretch reflex it's hard to stay in the hips and there is a tendency to use the lower back a lot more, making the ascent more vertical than necessary and putting additional weight through the arms. It would explain the back and arm pain.

Keep much tighter in the glutes and control the decent instead of bombing it. When you feel the stretch, then come straight back up, but hold your torso down a touch longer than you think is correct -aim tits at floor in Rips parlance-it's a bit like holding the nose of an aircraft down for a fraction longer in order to get a clean climb out.