After a year finally got squat hand position

[Ray200]

Hi Bekah,
Thanks. Yes, I'm sure I'll get there. The title of Nokian's post should be enough to show that getting the correct wrist extension will take time, even for those who have been stretching for a few weeks. Missed today's workout due to work commitments but will try and post my style in all its glory tomorrow if I have time. Might help others in the same position. The low-bar style promoted here reminds me very much of freestanding hip-belt squats, ie, low back angle and much of the drive initiated via the hips. However, only being able to fit 5 plates on the belt forced me to return to squats. Low bar seems very natural. Enjoying it (wrists apart) so far.

Best,
Ray

[Mike Barry]

I noted from the first rep onward the bar "slips" down c.1" and settles. It was only yesterday that I noticed my triceps touching the bar. I'm trying to form the "shelf" but can feel little.

Sounds like you may have overcompensated and have the bar too low. For me, the difference between a high bar and low bar position wasn't as much as I expected.

This may be an unconventional method, but I will stand straight up with my back against the bar, and my hands just a little wider than where they need to be, while the bar is still in the rack. I then lower myself down until I feel the bar sort of engage with the "shelf." I then bring my hands in as close to my shoulders as I can. I'm about 6'1, and get my pinky fingers about a finger width or two inside the marks on the knurling. That gets me nice and tight in the upper back. Sometimes my hands will want to slide away from my shoulders during the set, but chalk helps a lot.

Good luck, and keep at it.

P.S. - I'm picturing your home as the Island of Sodor (sorry, I have young kids). Please don't take offense, I live just outside of Detroit so you can imagine my home as the set from Robocop :-)

[Nockian]

Thanks again for the advice. Just to clarify, I'm 6' 1" and have now hit the big 40. I stopped squatting c.11 years ago actually. I did high-bar style (with a Herculean 82kg max) and was continually injuring my back. I also deadlifted conventional. I dropped squats and deads simultaneously and have done no leg exercises since but sumos and hip-belt squats. The occasional cycle of front squats, stiff-legged deads and Bulgarian deads being the exceptions. I've now managed to get some respectable figures but unless I start investing in some 50kg plates my hip-belt will have to go into storage. This explains my return to back squats.
Low bar seems far more natural. Love it. But I am a novice. I've tried to implement all of the squat recommendations but this one element is my main problem. I noted from the first rep onward the bar "slips" down c.1" and settles. It was only yesterday that I noticed my triceps touching the bar. I'm trying to form the "shelf" but can feel little. I have good upper back development and even used to teach anatomy at uni (Art History) so basic bar placement should not be an issue. I'll be training next on Wednesday. I'll try and take a vid. No elbow or shoulder problems at least. But perhaps I'm trying to get this fixed too quickly. It will take time. Admittedly, I was expecting 2-3 weeks but we'll see what my vid shows. Low bar position might be it.

Cheers,
Ray

PS: Rookhope was bleak! But we got to see some stunning spar boxes by the miners. Worth the visits alone.

Get the hands on top of the bar and it's difficult to wiggle the bar past the shelf. It automatically is the lowest position. Trying to get it lower would be difficult if the arms are in as narrow as possible. It's a funny thing because it all comes together from the hand/arm position. When I held the bar with extended wrists, the shelf wasn't obvious to me-I had convinced myself my back development must be so poor that I literally didn't have any musculature in that spot :-)

Yes, it's very bleak, particularly in winter.

[Ray200]

Sounds like you may have overcompensated and have the bar too low. For me, the difference between a high bar and low bar position wasn't as much as I expected.

This may be an unconventional method, but I will stand straight up with my back against the bar, and my hands just a little wider than where they need to be, while the bar is still in the rack. I then lower myself down until I feel the bar sort of engage with the "shelf." I then bring my hands in as close to my shoulders as I can. I'm about 6'1, and get my pinky fingers about a finger width or two inside the marks on the knurling. That gets me nice and tight in the upper back. Sometimes my hands will want to slide away from my shoulders during the set, but chalk helps a lot.

Good luck, and keep at it.

P.S. - I'm picturing your home as the Island of Sodor (sorry, I have young kids). Please don't take offense, I live just outside of Detroit so you can imagine my home as the set from Robocop :-)

Hi Mike,
Yes, I have a note from my training session on 5 Nov: "Am I holding the bar too low?" High-bar squats are so common on the forum they must have filtered through. I'm naturally hesitant about the squat. It's not an instinctive move for me. This wrist problem just seemed to take my concentration away from perfecting the technique. I think I'm trying to get things too quickly. It will take time. I raised the bar a little today and it was immediately better, but it felt a little high. No chance to record a vid--again--as I had friends with me and as the only place to squat is in a spar bedroom it was a bit cramped. Local gym has a Leg Press machine that I maxed out months ago. No great feat on my part. It was just too light. Might be a equivalent to a 300lbs squat.
Sodor! Ha! Took me a few seconds to get the meaning. Sodor is the old Viking church diocese that covered all the islands of west Britain. Sad to know that but I was a uni lecturer for some years. I was trying to get the connection before a distant memory of Ringo Starr narrating took hold. You're not far off actually: I'm on the whisky island of Islay where steam trains are a future luxury. I'm trying to evoke memories of Rocky IV and basic training but difficult to do when you don't even have room for a bench (I have to floor press and do dips).

Cheers,
Ray

[Ray200]

Get the hands on top of the bar and it's difficult to wiggle the bar past the shelf. It automatically is the lowest position. Trying to get it lower would be difficult if the arms are in as narrow as possible. It's a funny thing because it all comes together from the hand/arm position. When I held the bar with extended wrists, the shelf wasn't obvious to me-I had convinced myself my back development must be so poor that I literally didn't have any musculature in that spot :-)

Yes, it's very bleak, particularly in winter.

That's what I'm finding. I'm gripping the bar very low--my fingertips are on top of the bar. That helps but might just be masking the lack of flexibility. I did hold it lower today but prevented this "slide" down the back that I've done previously. I can feel my traps bunching as I step back and wonder how on earth you can find a shelf with that muscle mass protruding so much (I have a very narrow grip with thumbs at the knurling).
I think I just have to accept I'm naturally not very flexible in the shoulders and work at remedying the problem. It's just the length of time it's taking that's surprised me. There are vids on the forum with lifters' wrist bending back but not to the extent mine were. As I wrote, it's the fact it took you so long to master this seemingly minor problem that struck a chord with me. And seeing vids of grandparents lifting with a perfect wrist position was an eye opener. Desk job: what do you expect? Long weeks await! Still, it's a learning curve. Enjoying it so far.

Cheers,
Ray

[Nockian]

Aye, our grandparents often had to lift things-sides of beef, holds of bricks, mining equipment and coal sacks where these days health and safety would make you use specialist handling equipment.

[Nockian]

I couldn't do a better video than this :

It's some damned gym rat amateur bro, but he seems to have an idea of what's going on. ;-)

[Ray200]

Hi Nockian,
Yes, I saw the vid ... watched it about a dozen times or more. I'm still nowhere near that level of flexibility. Your initial post came on just as I'd hit the nadir: only 110kg on the bar, wrists bent at an alarming angle from the off and all reps were concerned with hoping they wouldn't snap over the work sets. Hip drive looked like a good morning, back bent like an aggressive cat and knees caving in. Didn't see much hope after c.5 weeks of stretching. I even ordered an SSB. Well, things are a bit better since. I raised the bar c.1". Wrists are still bent but not so badly as to cause pain. Partial progress. Not there yet but slow and steady. SSB: tried it and it felt more like a back exercise than a leg one. You really have to force the upper back to remain upright--anathema to the style promoted here.
I suppose the thing I've taken from this thread is not to be too ambitious. I've not done back squats for over a decade and only lifted beginner poundages when I ditched the lift. It will take months for some people. Perhaps many months. As I'd done so much back work I thought that would have done something for my shoulder flexibility. Clearly not a lot. Anyway, did 3x5 with 125kg today and it was like a warm up. How things will be when I get up to the heavier weights are another matter but it just seems I had the bar too low. Even 1" made all the difference. A SS coach would have spotted this within seconds but, well, maybe learning from your mistakes is part of the plan, provided no injuries come from it.

Cheers,
Ray

[Nockian]

I'm no where close to a 125Kg squat 3x5 so you are doing alright.

[Ray200]

Hi Nockian,
I've been at this for c.12-13 years now so I've made some progress. The exception, however, is the squat. I'm borderline clueless. Not a natural movement for me: every cue has to be emphasised on every rep or my form falls apart, and by concentrating so much on alleviating the wrist pain this was happening once too often. The low bar seems to be the one variant my body can progress on so I'm reluctant to ditch it and use, say, Bulgarian split squats, Zerchers or goblet squats. I'm squatting today. Bar seemed a tad high in recent workouts, although it has helped my wrist pain. Will try and get a friend to take a photo. Might show where I'm failing better.

Cheers,
Ray