My 5 reps of squats from different angles. What's causing my back to hurt?

[Dillon Spencer]

Well for starters, you might want to go through the whole teaching progression again. Even practicing the hip drive without the bar.

YouTube
YouTube

More specifically to your back angle:
YouTube
YouTube

If you prefer reading:
Your Back Angle in the Squat | Mark Rippetoe
https://startingstrength.com/article...-clarification

[GorkemSahin]

Well for starters, you might want to go through the whole teaching progression again. Even practicing the hip drive without the bar.

YouTube
YouTube

More specifically to your back angle:
YouTube
YouTube

If you prefer reading:
Your Back Angle in the Squat | Mark Rippetoe
https://startingstrength.com/article...-clarification

I've watched and read every single one of those videos and articles already. I guess I'm just dumb or I'm physically not capable of low-bar squatting. Wish I lived in the US so that I could be coached by someone who knows what they're doing. The coach at my gym is even skinnier than I am, and he does quarter squats at the smith machine.

[Dillon Spencer]

You're not dumb or incapable, just frustrated. Relax. Second form check I ever posted here, Rip held me up as an example to the board of the horrors of lifting the chest mid squat. Keep at it, and accept that this is probably grounds for a deload. Fixing your form isn't a waste of time in the gym, especially if you're experiencing pain. Take video of every set. Watch it between sets. Learn what to watch for so you can try correcting it on the next set. Have you watched your own videos back after everyone's feedback? Can you see what people are commenting on for yourself? If coaching isn't an option, you're going to have to become your own coach. Or trust us randoms

[Treg]

Before I discovered Starting Strength, I learned to high bar back squat from a bunch of know-nothings online. So when I read the book and switched to low bar squats, I struggled with this issue for a while. I think what finally got me past it was doing long paused reps at very low weight, to allow myself to check and correct my form at the bottom, then concentrate on keeping the hips and knees back while hip driving up.

Dillon Spencer provided some links to some very usual videos. Take a look at those and watch the people who lean into the squat really well. Get that image firmly planted in your head of what it looks like when someone leans forward properly as they descend. Really sit and study that, over and over.

Then go to the gym. Get under the bar - UNLOADED. Get tight and slowly descend. Concentrate hard on shoving your knees out, and LEAN IN, just like you saw the people in the videos doing it. When you reach the bottom of the range of motion (which is really determined by when you can no longer stick your butt out any farther BACK, not down), hold that position and concentrate on what if feels like to REMAIN leaning forward with your hips BACK and your knees staying where they are, not leaking forward. Then drive up with your hips while stilll leaning forward and don't let your knees slide forward.

Again, sorry to shout, but DO THIS WITH THE UNLOADED BAR a whole bunch of times. Like, way more than you want to. Then maybe go up to 95 lbs. and do the same exercise, and so on. You will not be able to fix this problem if you insist on trying to work on it with anything but very light weight on the bar at first, until you're really getting the feel.

Hope this is helpful.

[GorkemSahin]

Before I discovered Starting Strength, I learned to high bar back squat from a bunch of know-nothings online. So when I read the book and switched to low bar squats, I struggled with this issue for a while. I think what finally got me past it was doing long paused reps at very low weight, to allow myself to check and correct my form at the bottom, then concentrate on keeping the hips and knees back while hip driving up.

Dillon Spencer provided some links to some very usual videos. Take a look at those and watch the people who lean into the squat really well. Get that image firmly planted in your head of what it looks like when someone leans forward properly as they descend. Really sit and study that, over and over.

Then go to the gym. Get under the bar - UNLOADED. Get tight and slowly descend. Concentrate hard on shoving your knees out, and LEAN IN, just like you saw the people in the videos doing it. When you reach the bottom of the range of motion (which is really determined by when you can no longer stick your butt out any farther BACK, not down), hold that position and concentrate on what if feels like to REMAIN leaning forward with your hips BACK and your knees staying where they are, not leaking forward. Then drive up with your hips while stilll leaning forward and don't let your knees slide forward.

Again, sorry to shout, but DO THIS WITH THE UNLOADED BAR a whole bunch of times. Like, way more than you want to. Then maybe go up to 95 lbs. and do the same exercise, and so on. You will not be able to fix this problem if you insist on trying to work on it with anything but very light weight on the bar at first, until you're really getting the feel.

Hope this is helpful.

Thanks. I'll try this tomorrow.

[zft]

Thanks. I'll try this tomorrow.

I've also struggled with this (and still do, see my post history). Treg's advice is good--and I'll add that the crucial component for me is filming *every single set*. You may think that your warm-ups with the empty bar aren't important, but if you're trying to make a fairly drastic form correction, they're the most important! If you don't have it right with the empty bar, you won't have it right with heavier weights.

Get it right with the empty bar--THEN go up in weight. Then get it right with that weight, and so on. Do not leave corrections for heavier weights because they will not happen.

So, to reiterate: you need to film every set, review the set immediately after you've completed it, and make any required adjustments until it's right.

[Joe Jaloszynski]

When you reach the bottom of the range of motion (which is really determined by when you can no longer stick your butt out any farther BACK, not down)

Bottom of the range of motion is hips below the knees.

[Treg]

Bottom of the range of motion is hips below the knees.

Yes, and for just about everyone, it works out the same with a properly performed low bar squat - hip joint will be just below the top of the patella when the hips can't go back any further. If he understood that he miight avoid that pelvic tilt and lumbar flexion at the bottom.

But whatever. I should have my head examined for commenting. You guys have at it.

[Greg Ruhl]

I'll add that the crucial component for me is filming *every single set*.

+1. For those of us who are not athletic, this is absolutely crucial. The work set is NOT the time or place to try and fix things (a coach cueing you... maybe). You need to be dialing things in during the warm ups so you've got 1-2 things to think about on the work set (e.g. knees out, or HUGE breath + get tight, etc.).

[GorkemSahin]

You're not dumb or incapable, just frustrated. Relax. Second form check I ever posted here, Rip held me up as an example to the board of the horrors of lifting the chest mid squat. Keep at it, and accept that this is probably grounds for a deload. Fixing your form isn't a waste of time in the gym, especially if you're experiencing pain. Take video of every set. Watch it between sets. Learn what to watch for so you can try correcting it on the next set. Have you watched your own videos back after everyone's feedback? Can you see what people are commenting on for yourself? If coaching isn't an option, you're going to have to become your own coach. Or trust us randoms

How's this man? I tried to do as I was told. I was a bit above the parallel appearently but at least I had some hip drive this time, I hope.