Squat advice

[Alceste]

Link to previous thread: Lowbar Squat advice


Hi everyone,

After recovering from the pain I had after the squat session documented in the thread from above, I went back to the gym to try to squat, as recommended with less weight (felt funny to squat less than to OHP). This time I used a dumb bell in order to make sure I would hit depth. I am still unsure though what proper depth means - the book suggests that the hip joint needs to be below the kneecap, however I have no clue as to where my hipjoint is and only a vague idea of where the "top of the patella is". I am also not sure what apex in "the apex in the crease of the shorts, is supposed to refer to - wiktionary suggests that it means "The highest or the greatest point of something" yet the arrow actually points to the lowest point of the crease in the shorts. Some explanation would help in case I still do not meet the requirements. Anyway here's what I did:

YouTube

This was Monday and I went back today. However after two reps of attempting to recreate what I did in the video, I again felt tremendous pain on the left side of my hip. I did go to see my doctor, as Pete told me to (to be fair he told me to get diagnosed, which I supposed means "go see a doctor"), however the doctor told me that I should either stop squatting or get proper instruction. Which leads me back here, wondering if anyone has experienced the same pain as I do and knows a way to get rid of that. Here's the description:

I have been having constant pain on the left side of my groin (where the leg attaches to the hip), which prevents me from lying down on that side. The pain creeps into my quad with an emphasis on the external side. Sicne today I also have (just as I did when I posted in the previous thread) excruciating pain on the left side of my lower back which creeps leftwards around my waistline . I will take another doctor's appointment this time with another doc but this could take a while. in the meantime I would be happy for any recommendation to make the pain better in any way.

Thanks for the advice,

Alceste

PS: I jsut realized that I felt my lower back in a non-positive way already while I benched today (due to an occupied rack I chose to bench before squatting).

[Soule]

It looks to me like you don’t maintain rigid lumbar extension - this becomes apparent at the bottom of your squat. I’ll even go so far to assume that you sit down for a large portion of the day.

The symptoms you are describing may be indicative of nerve impingement from bulging discs, but maybe not. I’m not a doctor. Regardless, you need to learn how to hold correct lumber extension in your movements.

[Alceste]

To be quite honest that is what I think as well, but Rip told me "your back is fine" and that all I needed to do was to go deeper. How would I go on about maintaining a rigid lumbar extension? As far as I can tell once I hit a certain depth I start loosening up.

[Mark Rippetoe]

His low back is fine, and would be even finer if he wasn't trying to touch the dumbbell with his ass -- when you do that, the touch becomes the focus and the low back is of secondary importance. He's just not doing the program. But he seems to be enjoying himself, so everything's okay.

[Alceste]

I cannot really evaluate the truth value of most of what you say simply because I lack the knowledge, which is the reason why I came here in the first place. However I know for sure that in case he is intended to refer to me the last part of your utterance is false. No I am not enjoying myself laying awake at nights from the pain in my hips, quads and back, Sir. And although I am really trying hard to take your words to only "[...] mean exactly what they say" I do not enjoy feeling that the unusual choice of pronouns in your reply may serve the purpose to ridicule me.
Don't understand me wrong - If I did not enjoy working out as much as I do and I didn't have pain in my knees from the way I have been squatting the last 5 years, I would not be here annoying you. In fact your response makes it plainly obvious that this process is not very enjoyable to me either. If I had the choice to hire a starting strength coach here in the country I reside in, I would. Since this is not the case this forum is the only option I got (well i could go for online coaching but seeing how great the experience here is, I have some doubts as to whether I'd like to pay a couple of hundred bucks to some guy / gal on the web I don't know).

[Mark Rippetoe]

Have you read the book?

[Alceste]

The very fact that I cited parts of its text and images in my first post implies that I have, so yes I have read the book. However, as I have openly admitted on more than one occasion, not being familiar with most anatomical notions used in this publication, I do not understand the whole complex of topics the authors treat e.g. the definition of parallel / below parallel (cf. my first post in this thread).
The book also does not talk about the other questions (relating to my pain) I asked. The book as far as I remember also does not talk about using dumbbells to evaluate whether one is squatting to depth. I wonder btw. how you reached the conclusion that I'm not doing the program, as this statement requires knowledge I did not present here; or did you infer that from me benching prior to squatting on one day?

[Soule]

I would listen to Rip. If he says your back is fine, then it’s fine.

Read the book and you’ll understand how thorough his understanding is of barbell mechanics.

And maybe thank the man for his time instead of acting butthurt over his tone.

[Nockian]

I previously had pains in my hips which kept me awake at night. I think it was due to a too wide stance and bombing the bottom of the squat. Whatever it was I clearly don't do it now-stance is a lot more narrow and I make sure to keep those hammy's tight at the bottom of the squat.

Your getting slack at the bottom of the squat and tucking your arse trying to touch the dumbbell and it's causing a lot of knee slide which is likely adding to your discomfort.

if I were you I'd get rid of that dumbbell and use a camera after every set to see if you need to go lower. I would also stop fretting about perfect depth. If everything is tight when you begin the decent and it stays that way, then the correct bottom of the squat will cause a stretch in the hamstrings which is pretty easy to sense as everything is locked tight.

If you are still having trouble then you are going to need a coach.

[Alceste]

I would listen to Rip.

That's what i did and now I can't sleep at night. My body is telling me , no it's shouting right in my face, that I am doing something wrong.

If he says your back is fine, then it’s fine.

That may very well be the case, still I got pain. So even if my back is fine that still prevents me from squatting or doing any other lift or even getting out of my car.

Read the book and you’ll understand how thorough his understanding is of barbell mechanics.

I do understand that, which is the reason why I am here. What is beyond however is how you got to the conclusion that I did not read the book.

And maybe thank the man for his time instead of acting butthurt over his tone.

I am hurt, yet not in my butt but in my hips, as I have repeated numerous times by now. Maybe you should be less concerned with butts especially Ripp's and actually read what people wrote before you answer their posts.

@ Nockian: Thanks for the advice. I would gladly try and follow that however I have huge trouble determining what proper depth is from looking at myself through video. hence the dumbbell. I stated previously that I am puzzled by the definition in the book, and I saw a thread not too long ago (which I can't find anymore) where people were confused by the same thing. Since my last thread was blocked because my squats were too high (and depth is one of the most essential aspects of the squat according to the book), I decided to use the dumbbell, so I'd be sure. So unless you'd be willing to educate me on what the book means by its definition of depth (cf. my first post) I won't even be in a position to evaluate my depth.