Squat grip/bar placement check - excessive pain in elbows/biceps

[over40]

46 years old. 6'5" 236 lbs. Been lifting via SS model for 2+ years. I've had one form check with a SS coach about a year ago.

So the good news is that I've finally been able to get my squat moving north again (after gaining about 10 pounds of body weight). Last 5RM 275 this morning.

The bad news is that I have excruciating pain around my elbows and lower biceps with a lesser amount around my upper forearms and forward shoulders. It does not hurt while I'm lifting, but throbs terribly immediately afterwards and even hours/days later so much that my hands tremble and I can only do minimal upper body work, especially bench press where I feel the pain as soon as I lower the bar half way. It is in both arms.

From reading here my understanding is this is classic tendinitis due to how my hands/arms are handling the bar in a low bar squat.

So first questions is:
1) Is this normal when weight goes up? If it is, should I just keep my squat weight steady for a while? For perspective, I do a 4 day split and do a heavy set of 5 followed by two backoff sets of 5 (-10%) on my squat on the heavy day and lighter weight/higher volume day on the other lower body day. I have been adding 5 pounds per week to my BS and am close to my 5RM.

Programming aside, lets say this is a form issue.
2) Should I just move bar higher or take a wider grip? Again, 6'5" with long forearms. What should I experiment with?

I think I get in trouble on the last couple of reps when (as my wife observes) it looks like I'm trying to lift the bar with my arms, the bar being in contact with the palms of hands. I know this is a no-no, just not sure how to stop. At this point, besides the deep pain, it is having a negative effect on my overall training. Not happy.

Thanks for any wisdom.
Ladd

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[Pete Troupos]

Hey Ladd. Sound like you got the elbow cancer.
Let's discuss...

1) Is this normal when weight goes up? If it is, should I just keep my squat weight steady for a while? For perspective, I do a 4 day split and do a heavy set of 5 followed by two backoff sets of 5 (-10%) on my squat on the heavy day and lighter weight/higher volume day on the other lower body day. I have been adding 5 pounds per week to my BS and am close to my 5RM.

No, this isn't normal and usually indicates an issue with bar position, grip position, a misunderstanding of how much the shoulder should be extended, a soft thoracic spine, or the bar moving around while squatting. The issue is technique that's been exposed by the increase in weight. It's not something you should "live with" and needs to be addressed since it doesn't tend to get better on its own.

Programming aside, lets say this is a form issue.
2) Should I just move bar higher or take a wider grip? Again, 6'5" with long forearms. What should I experiment with?

The bar looks too low on your back in these pictures. Does the bar feel like it's sliding down lower while you're squatting? Does your bar have a center knurl to help it stay in place on your back? Can you take a video of your squat using the criteria in the sticky at the top and post it? We need to see you moving. Based on the moving elbows you talk about, it's likely the bar is too low and this is they body figuring out how to not let it slide down. Which will piss off the elbows.

In the meantime, can you set up the programming so you're benching and pressing before squatting, so it has less of an effect on those lifts?

[Nicholas Laureys]

Hi Ladd,

Maybe this video will help you, too:
YouTube

Rip is correcting only the pinky and ring fingers being in contact with the bar (the "mountain" hand positions look exactly like yours in your pics) by telling us to take a narrower grip and keep the elbows down. He says he sees this grip all the time at the seminars so it must be a common mistake.

I've got a situation where only my left hand grip looks like this, and I was despondant that this might be something I must just deal with because of a head injury I had as a child that resulted in left-side weaknesses similar to a stroke.
And the damn left hand bothers me so much, the bar feels so insecure on that side, that I've been trying all kinds of remedies like a wider grip, which I thought was putting more of my hand in contact with the bar, but I'm sure subconsciously causes my elbow comes up to try to secure the bar, too.

Thankfully I happened upon this video again after my last squat session, and I'm ecstatic to try out the narrower grip and elbows down solution tonight!

Hopefully this approach can fix your "mountain" grips and resolve that elbow pain, too. I wish you good luck and hard work!
--not an SSC

[over40]

Hi Pete-
My bar doesn't have a center knurl but I did start using an A7 shirt which helps keep the bar in place really well. Its honestly never felt like the bar was sliding down my back, in fact more the opposite, but I think that may have been the reps where the weight went too far forward on my feet.

I'm doing a 4 day split, upper/lower/day off/upper/lower in that order, rarely doing anything other upper body movements than maybe chins on the same day as squat. So the pain lasts for a couple days and is most pronounced between 80-100% of my bench 1RM on the bottom half of the movement.

I will get a couple a videos posted here this Friday when I squat again.

Thanks again for the help, I really appreciate what you guys/gals are doing here!

[Nockian]

Looks to me like you are keeping your shoulders pinched together by pure effort of the back muscles, you look far too comfortable to me. Get your hands closer to your shoulders and three things will happen:

1) the bar will sit exactly where it's supposed to because the shelf will be better formed.
2) the bar will be locked in place with the hands hardly supporting it and your elbows will thank you for it.
3) you will be cursing me for making things so uncomfortable on your shoulders during the time before you lift the bar off the pins.

[over40]

Here's from this morning. I used a regular Under Armor shirt as it contrasts better for the video then my black A7 squat grip shirt...so the bar did feel like it moved around a little more. It did feel like it wanted to roll up my neck once or twice.

I didn't even attempt to repeat my prior form for fear of more pain. This is my best attempt to rectify the problem given the great feedback on this thread.

The setup:
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First video is last warm up at 225.
YouTube

Work set at 250. Today was a light day/heavy DL. I can post another at 275 on Tuesday if it is needed.
YouTube

Hope the attachments work and you can see enough.

I felt a just a little discomfort, but MUCH better. I presume it takes time for tendinitis to heal??

I've read a lot on various rehab methods. Today I just did a bunch of low weight/high rep hammer curls and wrist curls to pump blood into the area.

Any other recommendations on re-hab that works for most?

[Pete Troupos]

That's why I wanted to see video. 2 of the 3 pics you first posted made it look like you were carrying the bar low, but it's in the right spot on your work set.

Get a little piece of athletic tape and put it around the center of the bar. Hopefully you're saving up for a new bar.

The combination of wrists extended and a soft upper back is playing havoc with your squat. With the arms that close in, your wrists bent back, your upper back not extended, and your elbows cranked up, you're going to be shoving the bar up your back.
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Don't walk your hands in any closer than you can keep your wrists neutral. Before you unrack the bar, lift your chest and get your upper back tight while you pull the elbows down like you're trying to put them in your back pockets. Then unrack the bar and maintain this position. Reset the upper back and elbows between every rep. This should keep it from feeling like it's going to roll up, and allow you to lean over with confidence.
To make sure you have the bar in the right spot, under the spine of the scaps, make sure to check out Nick D's video on our youtube channel about bar placement.
Lastly, narrow your stance. Have your training partner eye ball you from the back and make sure your heels are under your shoulders.

[over40]

Ahh...damn soft upper back again!!!
I will work on everything you pointed out.

So do you prefer a bar with a center knurling over using a shirt with squat grip on the back?

Thanks Pete!

[Pete Troupos]

I've never used an A7 shirt, so I'm not sure how well they hold up. What if it's dirty on squat day?

[over40]

I've never used an A7 shirt, so I'm not sure how well they hold up. What if it's dirty on squat day?

Dig it out of the dirty clothes pile, lift, return it to the dirty clothes pile One of the many reasons I lift in my own garage, I can stink.

I did add the athletic tape to the bar as well. Lifted this morning and between the two the bar wasn't going to move at all. Dropped my working sets 25# to get use to the form adjustments. About 75% less soreness/pain than before, just trying hard to not revert to past movement patterns.