Squat Form Check - Follow-up

[BustedBack]

Pete,
I’m up 30lbs to 195 from the first check I submitted earlier this month. But the 195 mark is where things start getting sketchy under the bar for me. The bar speed does look consistent but the effort feels and order of magnitude higher than at 180. And this is where I start to develop injuries in my low back. Then I need to back off 30-40 lbs only to build myself back to 195ish and the cycle continues. Last night was no different. Below is my 3rd set. First rep I can see (and felt) my toes move a little bit, but I think I corrected that in the subsequent 4 reps.

Within a couple hours my left QL/oblique area was so inflamed I barely slept all night and today I can’t even bend over to but my shoes on.

5/26 SQ 195x5 3rd set
YouTube

Aside from any technique errors you may see, is it possible that low bar is just not suitable for me given my back problems and perhaps I should try something else? Or maybe different programming? Thanks in advance.

[Hayden-William Courtland]

These don't look that hard and I am not seeing any egregious technical errors. That said, you are back on your heels a bit as you note and you can probably fix this by leaning over a bit more at the start of each rep. Your stance also looks a touch too narrow to me, though I can't say for sure at this angle. But it might be worth going a bit wider with your feet and shoving your knees out HARD in the bottom. Hard to say if any of this is contributing to your back issues. Do you have a history of back problems? What are you deadlifting these days and how to those feel?

[BustedBack]

These don't look that hard and I am not seeing any egregious technical errors. That said, you are back on your heels a bit as you note and you can probably fix this by leaning over a bit more at the start of each rep. Your stance also looks a touch too narrow to me, though I can't say for sure at this angle. But it might be worth going a bit wider with your feet and shoving your knees out HARD in the bottom. Hard to say if any of this is contributing to your back issues. Do you have a history of back problems? What are you deadlifting these days and how to those feel?

Thanks for the input. I actually have a hard time leaning forward any more because it puts a ton of stress on my low back. I know we're trying to stress the low back, but it's the kind that causes a major spasm and forces me to stop the workout. Yes, I have a 13-year history of chronic back pain. I have a herniated disc at L5/S1, but in recent years, the pain is more in the QL-area on both sides in the form of debilitating spasms when I lean or hinge forward with any type of load. I'm actually still hurting from Tuesday's workout, so it'll be a game-time decision if I Squat and Deadlift today.

One thing I noticed is that I do not feel the stretch reflex at the bottom. It feels like all my effort goes to slowing down the weight before I get too low and then changing direction with very minimal rebound assistance. I wonder if a slightly wider stance and hard knee shove will help that?

My deadlift is equally as bad. Later that workout after my presses I pulled 215x5 which felt very hard -- another 10-15 lbs wouldn't have left the floor. That said, I've been stuck at about that squat weight for about 6 months and a deadlift around 225, give or take a few, for several years. I attribute this to my bad back and not being able to induce enough stress to drive an adaptation. I have gained weight from 165 to 185. This has driven up my Bench and Press significantly, but not the Squat and Deadlift.

To put it in perspective where I should be and how far I am from that potential, by Bench is 270 and Press is 175. Have you seen many cases of people having much of an imbalance between lower and upper body lifts when there is a back issue?

[Hayden-William Courtland]

Are those BP and PR numbers 5s or 1RMs? Either way I would expect SQ 5s to be in the high 200s/low 300s and your DL 5s in the high 300s. Again, I would try and ignore how hard reps "feel" and just look at the speed of everything after the fact on video. But if you are having the type of pain you say you are, that's a different issue. With the low bar squat we are not intentionally trying to load the back more, it's just a byproduct of the technique. The way SS is designed your DL should catch up and exceed your SQ, so the impact of the squat weight on your back becomes a moot point.

The stretch reflex will not be as good as it could if you don't lean over and reach your butt back halfway down, so that might be the issue there. If you are too narrow, going a bit wider may help, but too wide will work against you.

I have worked with a number of people who had disc herniations and felt better high bar squatting, but they were all able to deadlift no problem, so you might want to post in the injury forum to get some feedback from our PTs.

[BustedBack]

I should’ve specified. Those are recent 1RMs; hopefully 5s by the fall if I program and eat right. BP 5s are 235x4x5 and P is 145x4x5 - and that is completely strict without that initial hip thrust thing which I can’t seem to figure out and totally messes up my set.

Did DL first tonight and 220x5 felt better on fresh legs and back. And the back felt a bit better afterwards. I do much better doing either DL or SQ heavy in a workout, so Tonight I SQ with 85% (165) with slightly wider stance, more butt reach and hard knee shove. The bounce did feel more pronounced And I was more balanced. I’ll continue to work on that.

Yeah I’ll see what the injury forum has to say about the back thing. I did high bar a bit but that ended up sending me to the ER with a spasm during my first set of 200. LB is so much more stable and I don’t need as much dorsiflexion so I’m hoping I can make that work.

Thanks again.

[Hayden-William Courtland]

Glad those adjustments helped a bit. Definitely stick with the low bar given that feels better. And your lower body lifts should definitely be higher with those numbers, so it seems like the pain is what's holding you back. See what they say on the injury channel for sure.

[BustedBack]

Glad those adjustments helped a bit. Definitely stick with the low bar given that feels better. And your lower body lifts should definitely be higher with those numbers, so it seems like the pain is what's holding you back. See what they say on the injury channel for sure.

Definitely is the pain and I think mentally it’s tied to strength. Today I barely got 155 for 5s. I feel like the cycle is continuing and I’ll have to work back up again.