Squat Form Check (Last Set TM 5x5 Volume Day) Squat Form Check (Last Set TM 5x5 Volume Day)

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Thread: Squat Form Check (Last Set TM 5x5 Volume Day)

  1. #1
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    Default Squat Form Check (Last Set TM 5x5 Volume Day)

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    335x6 (Last Set TM 5X5 Volume) - YouTube

    335 on the bar, last set of a TM 5x5 volume day, BW is 175. Relative to my torso length, I have long legs.

  2. #2
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    Get your stance at least an inch wider.
    Bend over more.
    Cut your depth off two inches.
    Drive your hips more.
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  3. #3
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    Thanks Coach. I feel like widening my stance would require the next three things that you listed to happen. Apart from bar position, foot position is the only other thing I can manipulate. At the bar position and foot width in the vid, that depth is were I get my stretch reflex.

    Not to stir the pot, but I've read all Mark's books and am behind the majority of his concepts. The big exception being the idea that low bar vs high bar/oly style is like apples in oranges. That the latter doesn't come close to the former in terms of strength gains. I feel like low bar vs high bar is arguing about the "last 5%" of the equation, the more important aspects being programming, diet, and the use of the big four compound movements (with some type of full depth back squat being the most important compound).

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by cookiemonster View Post
    Not to stir the pot, but I've read all Mark's books and am behind the majority of his concepts. The big exception being the idea that low bar vs high bar/oly style is like apples in oranges. That the latter doesn't come close to the former in terms of strength gains. I feel like low bar vs high bar is arguing about the "last 5%" of the equation, the more important aspects being programming, diet, and the use of the big four compound movements (with some type of full depth back squat being the most important compound).
    If you are already high-bar squatting 750, I agree. The weight on the bar is all that matters. But since you're not, the low-bar squat will get you there faster, every time, since it uses more muscle mass and therefore strengthens more muscle mass. You are obviously free to disagree, but you'll have to explain why I'm wrong if you want to win.

  5. #5
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    I didn't even notice from the angle that you were high-bar squatting. Yeah, you should switch to the low-bar squat. Switching to low-bar squat will not horribly ruin your training in the short term, and it will help a lot in the long term.

    That depth is not where you get your stretch reflex - it happens anytime there is an eccentric contraction. You may be mistakenly referring to the full stretch, but if you have a low-bar position and bend over and get your knees out, you will hit full extension at the correct location.

    That all said, I don't care if you high-bar squat. If you want to be 5% less efficient with your time and effort, that's fine with me.
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  6. #6
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    Coach Andrew, copy that! Yup, my fault, I meant “full stretch.” Rip, thanks for replying! I know you've got a lot of irons in the fire and your time is valuable. Which is reason enough for you to not entertain my reply. Btw, I watch your podcasts (sometimes for the comedy) and have read your books—and revisit them often.

    In SS in the oly/high-bar squat section under the assistance exercises chapter you stated the below—admittedly, you also spent a lot of time outlining a case for why the high-bar squat is suboptimal:

    "If you decide that the high-bar version might be useful, then use it as your standard squat and focus on the upright chest position. Hip drive will be greatly diminished, so it will not be useful as a cue."

    I use high-bar as my "standard squat" because low-bar has always felt awkward to me and I'm skeptical that switching to low-bar would lead to a marked increase in general fitness (squishy term, I know). Since we measure strength by pounds on the bar, I can’t dispute the fact that switching to low bar will make me stronger, for the two reasons Mark pointed out. But there’s also another important reason, right? Low-bar squats (compared to high-bar) have increased mechanical advantage due to the shorter lever arm between the bar and yours hip. The bar path is also shorter. Yes, the low-bar “involves” more of the posterior chain muscle group, but can we say convincingly that it utilizes more muscle mass overall, or does it, instead, just shift some contribution from the quads to the PC, without increasing total muscle usage? In which case, that 5% increase in poundage Andrew mentioned comes mainly from the increased mechanical advantage and reduced bar path of low-bar.

    Well, low-bar trains hip drive better than high-bar. Fair, but not markedly better. It probably doesn’t look like it, but I break at the hips first and start the concentric phase thinking all about the hips. The quads are an afterthought that happen automatically.

    My stance is that high-bar vs low-bar is a debate about a nuanced topic that—in the grand scheme of things, for someone who does not compete in PL—is of negligible importance. If you back squat to depth or greater, whether high-bar or low-bar, then you are checking the squat box. Yes, you’ll see higher numbers with low-bar but I argue that the stimulus and benefits you sought to gain from squatting will be met evenly in both cases. Say you have a trainee busting her ass under a heavy high-bar squat set. Isn’t that 95% of the battle right there? If she does that consistently, over months and years, do you think she’ll be markedly worse off, physically, than if she’d done low-bar instead? I don’t think it matters unless you compete.

    Yeah, my numbers are not impressive, but give me a break : ) I work on ships for a living and as you might imagine smith machines are ALL the rage. I’m only barbell squatting 25% of the year (LP followed by atrophy, then repeat). I do use the smith machine to hang my sweatshirt though.

  7. #7
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    starting strength coach development program
    The 5% I mentioned was quoting your 5% from the previous post.

    The differences in strength development in the low-bar squat and the high-bar squat are not just a function of mechanical advantage.
    Last edited by AndrewLewis; 10-07-2021 at 08:19 PM.
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