Squat Form Check - (depth and back angle)

[John Fioravanti]

Hi all,

Pete justifiably chastised me for poor filming angles and not getting to depth on my last post. I addressed the depth by revisiting the blue book, analyzing some footage, and doing the following today:

• deloading ~15 lbs to 225lbs, a weight I could get to depth with
• widening stance and turning out feet slightly
• focusing on "hips back and knees out" and "hips up" on the concentric

Video Here...

I think I got to proper depth this time, that the back angle is horizontal enough, and I can intelligently add weight again. Please let me know your thoughts.

Thank you,
- John

[Mark Rippetoe]

Depth is okay now. But we can't see your head in this revised filming angle, and that may be partly responsible for your failure to sufficiently drive your hips.

[John Fioravanti]

Responding to your comment, I reviewed some material and have been working on hip drive for a few weeks. I know I should be seeing the hips initiating the movement out of the bottom position with a slight change in back angle, but am really having trouble judging this. I suspect that I may still be producing insufficient hip drive. The hip drive looks a bit better/sufficient in this video at 247.2 lbs but perhaps worse again here at 250 lbs.

Any advice on how to fix this and keep moving forward? It's best to de-load to a weight where proper technique can be executed, but I don't want to continually de-load or de-load unnecessarily.

[Bill Anders]

What are you doing during your warmups? If you aren't practicing that hip drive during those lighter weights, you are squandering opportunity. In reality, you should be approaching those lighter warmup weights exactly as you approach your work set weights.

Since you don't want to deload (understandable), start with your empty bar warmup reps and pause at the bottom without losing tightness, then focus on the hip drive to get you out of the hole. Perhaps even do two sets with that empty bar with that focus. Then add weight as you usually do, gradually shifting the speed of the rep from the pause with hip drive out of the hole to the bounce with hip drive out of the hole as you approach your work set. By the time you get there, you'll be more ready.

Then do this every time you do squats. After awhile, it will become second nature.

And you're right, the 247.2lbs looks a lot better than 250lbs.

[Edmund Conroy]

To piggy back off of Bill, your warmups will be your best friend if you do not want to deload. You seem to almost be pausing at the bottom because you are not sure where your depth is, and the bounce is part of the hip drive process which makes your speed faster. Learn the bottom position so you are able to create a strong bounce out of the bottom. This is done as Bill said in warmups/light days if you have one.

Question though, are 2.5 lbs. jumps necessary? You seem pretty young and at 250 could probably stick with 5 lbs jumps even if you are still progressing with your form and such. I could be wrong, but just a thought.

[John Fioravanti]

Here is a typical warm up:
45x5x2
95x5x1
135x3x1
205x2x1
225x1x1
250x5x3

I always try to practice technique during the warm up, but I find it a bit difficult to replicate the exact movement without a load heavier than 45lbs to feel on my ass. Nevertheless, I will try what you suggest, Bill. Thank you.

You're right, Mundo. There is a slight pause and that is because I am concerned with both depth and hip drive. I'm not getting the bounce, which probably isn't helping the situation. I think spending a bit more time getting familiar with the bounce and bottom position outside of the work sets will help.

And no I doubt they're necessary. I've been doing 5 lbs jumps the whole program but pulled back till I could address this issue. After reading yall's comments and listening to Wednesday's podcast (12/1/21), I think I just need to get under the bar and make it happen with +5 lbs a workout.

- Thanks

[Bill Anders]

Yep, it's very difficult to get the exact movement right with the empty bar. For me, my grip is much wider as I've found that if I keep my normal narrow grip and tighten up as if I had a load on my back, the bar pops out from under the spine of the scapula and drifts upwards. That throws everything else out of whack. So for my empty bar, I just to wider on the grip and focus on the depth and hold each rep there for a moment before lifting my hips.

If you aren't quite feeling it after your first two warmup sets with the empty bar, do another set or two. Personally, I do 45x10x2, but as the garage gets colder (45°F today), I have no issues with doing 10x3 to get warmed up while focusing on the depth and drive. Plus, if I need to, I'll go deeper to get the hips loose, but even then I'll focus on keeping the bar over mid-foot and the hip drive to get back up.

But as soon as you add plates, don't allow deviation from the correct form. Otherwise, that creeps into the work sets and can end up being the difference between an injury or failure.

[John Fioravanti]

I have found the same thing happen with the grip width and the empty bar. After narrowing it following a bout of elbow tendonitis, I found that the empty bar would pop out, so I began to warm up with a wider grip and narrow it as I added weight (which I have to do anyways because my shoulders have to warm up to be sufficiently mobile).

I think your advice is sound; doing more sets with an empty bar shouldn't be fatiguing enough to pose a threat to accomplishing the work sets. I will try what you've suggested. Thank, Bill.