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Thread: Form check Power clean (power ugly) and Deadlift

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Kalin View Post
    I believe I’ve heard Andy Baker endorse the idea of a max single to make a set of 5 seem easier. I think you jumped the gun here a bit. I know Craig. He knows what he’s doing.
    I have a better question. What am I doing wrong. How is it I wrote a post explaining that the problem was stretching. Yet you reply to it with nothing about stretching. What way can I write this or say it to someone for them to tell me yes stretching can make you weaker or not?

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Kalin View Post
    I believe I’ve heard Andy Baker endorse the idea of a max single to make a set of 5 seem easier. I think you jumped the gun here a bit. I know Craig. He knows what he’s doing.
    Starting Strength in the Real World, warm up Sept 22 2016 by Mark Rippetoe

    "Squats require that you do some position stretching for the bottom of the movement, a few light squats, and an appropriate progression in weight from the empty bar up to the work sets using proper technique. And that is all. No jumping around in the floor, no 100 air squats, no goofy walking, no stretching other than assuming the bottom position a couple of times. Just get warm under the bar, add weight, and squat.

    There is no evidence, in either The Literature or in the objectively evaluated experience of coaches or lifters, that 30 minutes of stretching before a barbell workout is anything other than a detrimental waste of time. We have demonstrated for the past 10 years that a below-parallel squat is not dependent on flexibility, but rather correct positioning of the stance, knees, and back angle. The bottom position stretch I mentioned is not really a stretch in the sense that the Mobility People use the term, but a practice of the position to be assumed at the bottom before you start squatting.

    In fact, the vast majority of the studies on the subject show a decrease in power development if stretching is performed prior to the movement being tested. Stretching does not prevent injuries, and it doesn't increase performance. The full-ROM barbell exercises constitute their own stretch, and if you are already flexible enough to execute the barbell movements over their full and effective range of motion – and if you are not engaged in a sport that challenges your existing ROM during the movement patterns used in the sport – then you are sufficiently flexible to train without stretching. Stretching need not, and in fact should not be a part of the warmup, because it's a waste of your time.

    Training time is valuable. Paying for a coach to supervise an unnecessary half-hour of pointless warmup is one of the more obvious examples, but so is personal time spent away from work or family in the gym or on the track. Wasting that time is costly, and doing so simply because you have heard it is important reflects badly on your credulity".

    That was one of many articles I could find regarding stretching from starting strength. Now contrast that with the fact I had failed lifts 3 times, telling a coach that stretching was the problem, I end up drenched in sweat before I begin to lift and on the 4th time I refuse to stretch before being convinced to not only stretch which makes me weaker but to also increase the weight by 20lbs. But what you think is that I the lifter jumped the gun? Your wrong, he did not know what he was doing (in regard to stretching, other then this aspect I was the most impressed I have ever been in a personal training) but you don't know what your talking about either. As a matter of fact you both have the same problem you are not listening to what the problem is. Surely by now I have communicated what I believe the problem is. So tell me I'm wrong, tell me rips information is wrong and tell me how. Or better yet tell how I can prove it to you? Fail 4 times in a row with a coach and then not failing after without stretching I thought was evidence enough.

  3. #13
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    Looking at your elbows bend off the floor as the bar comes up for the clean, it is difficult to believe you have read the book.

  4. #14
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    Don't suppose you've got videos of the new PR's. Maybe you're squatting high now so you're getting the reps instead of failing?

    But really, who cares, your power clean sucked and you sound like you got it fixed. You've now left the coach and feel like you're making progress on your own.

    Problem solved. The World is a wonderful place once again.

    I thought all Canadians were obnoxiously polite?

  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichWill1664 View Post
    I used to play poker semi professionally. When invited to house games I would tell the host of course I'll come if you have a good game, if I win I keep playing if I'm up when the game is over I come back and play again. But if I lose for any reason I'm not coming back, definitely I would not lose repeatedly and come back.
    Claiming to play poker semi professionally without understanding the nature of variance makes me question your entire argument about Craig

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by RichWill1664 View Post
    I have a better question. What am I doing wrong. How is it I wrote a post explaining that the problem was stretching. Yet you reply to it with nothing about stretching. What way can I write this or say it to someone for them to tell me yes stretching can make you weaker or not?
    Are you fishing for an argument?

  7. #17
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    I think it would be interesting to hear the other side of the story.

    IPB

  8. #18
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    Craig has been notified.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Martin Shenfield View Post
    Don't suppose you've got videos of the new PR's. Maybe you're squatting high now so you're getting the reps instead of failing?

    But really, who cares, your power clean sucked and you sound like you got it fixed. You've now left the coach and feel like you're making progress on your own.

    Problem solved. The World is a wonderful place once again.

    I thought all Canadians were obnoxiously polite?
    On the starting strength fb I uploaded a video of 455 x 5 asking for a check on depth I got nothing back about height being to high.

    Your right power clean is what I came in for and to fix my deadlift form. Those both worked out well. Moved on that's it.

    What gets to me about this whole thing and where I push back on it, is about the stretching. Why is it no one will mention "if" stretching can make you weaker? I'm covered in sweat, I fail 3 times before specifically saying before we start that I can not do the stretching routine before failing a 4th time. Not only would Craig not listen to this neither will anyone else it seems. Its written about in starting strength articles but in this instants nothing.

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mark Rippetoe View Post
    Looking at your elbows bend off the floor as the bar comes up for the clean, it is difficult to believe you have read the book.
    The way I was doing the clean I was never going to do one properly. I kept going up in weight anyways thinking it helped the deadlift which was still going up. My hand position need to be wider, my flexibility was not good to just rack the bar on shoulders. I ended up catching it in my hands, not resting it on shoulders using finger tips. Partly I believe because (I later realized) I had a boxers break in my right hand about 4 years ago. Since healed my right hand can not move back as far as my left.

    Other then that I am not an athletic person. I just couldn't put that exercise together past a certain point. Even with a coach I could get up to 175lbs and then mentally I can not put it together. Cheating the movement would not help me, I mentally know that doing the movement correctly is best but still couldn't put myself under the bar. I end up cheating it. I am not able to just do it, like I assume an athlete can.

    Stretching in the instants to get hands in position to rack was helpful. The rest of the stretching I did I have no idea why I was doing it. I welcome hearing what Craig has to say as to why we were doing it.

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