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Thread: Thoughts on cycling between phases of weight gain/weight loss.

  1. #1
    Join Date
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    Default Thoughts on cycling between phases of weight gain/weight loss.

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    Hello everyone, (would particularly like Andy's opinion)

    My current bodyweight at 5'8" is 205 and my bodyfat is probably in the 24% range. I am on a strength/hypertrophy program currently, and am eating sufficiently to take advantage of that program(not dirty bulking or anything), therefore, I expect that my weight will be even a little higher when I am finished 6 weeks from now.

    At that point, it will be time to switch to different template (or start over the one I'm currently doing). I could of course stay in a caloric surplus and deload, or continue gaining, but I was considering doing a short weight loss cycle (3-4 weeks of carb restriction similar to what I've done before to reduce my weight). I know from experience that I can drop my body weight fairly quickly using this approach and my strength doesn't suffer horribly(naturally it does a little).

    So what this would look like is

    6 weeks strength cycle (small increase in bodyweight and bodyfat). Then 3 weeks diet cycle (modest increase in bodyweight and bodyfat). Wash, rinse, repeat.

    Can anyone think of any compelling reasons as to why this might be a bad idea? I'm sort of bumping up against the "fat ceiling" for what I consider tolerable for my physique, but I also know from experience that if I were to diet all the way down to like 175, then jump back on a strength cycle, I put the fat back on quite quickly because I've already created the fat cells and my body will re-fill them quickly. With this approach, theoretically, I could gain a little, lose a little, and stay fairly consistent bodyweight wise, while increasing my strength and muscle size over the long term. Of course this isn't the fastest path to getting stronger, but it might be a good path for getting stronger while keeping body fat in check for us endomorphs who like to put it on haha.

    The hesitation I have about this stems from the possibility that the 3 week diet cycle would turn out to effectively be a waste of time. In other words, the fat loss (likely to be 10-15lbs) would replace itself at a faster rate than I'd like and kinda negate the reason for doing it altogether.

    What has been your experience working with your clients?

  2. #2
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    I really thought this was going to be a cycling question. #damn.

  3. #3
    Join Date
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    Couple of questions:

    What is a "... strength/hypertrophy program..." - A basic description, not a disseertaion.

    Did you proofread this?: "6 weeks strength cycle (small increase in bodyweight and bodyfat). Then 3 weeks diet cycle (modest increase in bodyweight and bodyfat)."

    Why don't you simply clean up your diet, restrict calories somewhat, and get on a simple LP program (which would depend on your state of training advancement, of course) and use bodyfat as caloric surplus (IOW, slowly diet the weight off while trying to maintain GainZzZ (or however it's spelled)?

    You do know we have a nutrition forum staffed by a pretty bright guy, right?

    KISS principal applies here.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Msmith68w View Post
    Hello everyone, (would particularly like Andy's opinion)

    My current bodyweight at 5'8" is 205 and my bodyfat is probably in the 24% range. I am on a strength/hypertrophy program currently, and am eating sufficiently to take advantage of that program(not dirty bulking or anything), therefore, I expect that my weight will be even a little higher when I am finished 6 weeks from now.

    At that point, it will be time to switch to different template (or start over the one I'm currently doing). I could of course stay in a caloric surplus and deload, or continue gaining, but I was considering doing a short weight loss cycle (3-4 weeks of carb restriction similar to what I've done before to reduce my weight). I know from experience that I can drop my body weight fairly quickly using this approach and my strength doesn't suffer horribly(naturally it does a little).

    So what this would look like is

    6 weeks strength cycle (small increase in bodyweight and bodyfat). Then 3 weeks diet cycle (modest increase in bodyweight and bodyfat). Wash, rinse, repeat.

    Can anyone think of any compelling reasons as to why this might be a bad idea? I'm sort of bumping up against the "fat ceiling" for what I consider tolerable for my physique, but I also know from experience that if I were to diet all the way down to like 175, then jump back on a strength cycle, I put the fat back on quite quickly because I've already created the fat cells and my body will re-fill them quickly. With this approach, theoretically, I could gain a little, lose a little, and stay fairly consistent bodyweight wise, while increasing my strength and muscle size over the long term. Of course this isn't the fastest path to getting stronger, but it might be a good path for getting stronger while keeping body fat in check for us endomorphs who like to put it on haha.

    The hesitation I have about this stems from the possibility that the 3 week diet cycle would turn out to effectively be a waste of time. In other words, the fat loss (likely to be 10-15lbs) would replace itself at a faster rate than I'd like and kinda negate the reason for doing it altogether.

    What has been your experience working with your clients?
    I'm not a fan of the constant bulking / cutting cycles. Your strength will be all over the place and it's just unnecessarily complicated. My advice is this - if you are overly fat and need/want to lean out to a more reasonable BF% then do that. Continue to train, but be flexible in your loading and know you will likely lose some strength, but it will be minimal if you don't go nuts with your leaning out scheme. Aim for a pound or two per week until you reach a goal bodyweight and then re-assess how you feel about your BF%. Once you get to your goal BW / BF% then don't go crazy with a "bulk" and just get fat again. Slowly increase calories so that you can actually make progress again under the bar, and if need be, push the scale back up slowly, to a point where you can keep progressing. After a certain point, most of us need to decide on our ideal bodyweight and then just stay around that number, give or take a few pounds, and just be as strong as we can be at that weight. With proper programming you can continue to get stronger and not have to constantly push the scale up, provided you are not woefully underweight. I tell my clients all the time that it is not my job to tell you how much you should weigh. That is your choice. I know I'm stronger at 235 lbs than I am at 205 lbs, but I'm 5'4-5'5 and I feel much better at 205 than 235 and so I keep my bodyweight around 205. That is not underweight for my height and I can continue to get stronger at 205 without pushing the scale.

  5. #5
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    Jan 2018
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Baker (KSC) View Post
    I'm not a fan of the constant bulking / cutting cycles. Your strength will be all over the place and it's just unnecessarily complicated. My advice is this - if you are overly fat and need/want to lean out to a more reasonable BF% then do that. Continue to train, but be flexible in your loading and know you will likely lose some strength, but it will be minimal if you don't go nuts with your leaning out scheme. Aim for a pound or two per week until you reach a goal bodyweight and then re-assess how you feel about your BF%. Once you get to your goal BW / BF% then don't go crazy with a "bulk" and just get fat again. Slowly increase calories so that you can actually make progress again under the bar, and if need be, push the scale back up slowly, to a point where you can keep progressing. After a certain point, most of us need to decide on our ideal bodyweight and then just stay around that number, give or take a few pounds, and just be as strong as we can be at that weight. With proper programming you can continue to get stronger and not have to constantly push the scale up, provided you are not woefully underweight. I tell my clients all the time that it is not my job to tell you how much you should weigh. That is your choice. I know I'm stronger at 235 lbs than I am at 205 lbs, but I'm 5'4-5'5 and I feel much better at 205 than 235 and so I keep my bodyweight around 205. That is not underweight for my height and I can continue to get stronger at 205 without pushing the scale.

    I am 6' 220. I actually like being at this weight. I have been eating at maintenance for the past month. Jumped on the scale this morning and i am still 220. What are the chances i will see any type of body composition change eating at maintenance? I am currently running SSLP, and id love to eventually be 15-20 percent body fat at 220. Im probably, mid twenties now. I don't want to eat at a deficit because i don't look and feel half bad, and I love the increase in strength thus far.

  6. #6
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    starting strength coach development program
    It's very common for novices to report the effect of "waistband feels looser, scale is the same" effect. Are you gonna drop 10% body fat. I doubt it. But at 6' 220 you aren't overweight. I think if I'm in your shoes, I stay on my LP without screwing it up with a "cut" and get as strong as you can over the next month or so. Keep your diet clean, but feed yourself enough to train and recover. Once the LP runs it's course you can alter your programming / diet / conditioning to do whatever you want in term of physique / BF% / etc.

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