Volume sensitivity: 2 sets good. 3 sets bad. Your experience?

[RandyG]

I'm 48, so this is a relative issue for me, as it is all Masters. Cutting a 3rd of the volume out of the Squat should be very limiting to the SRA cycle. By going to 5x2 you will run the risk of not generating enough stress to drive your LP further on squat. As I mentioned above it appears you are potentially stressing the system beyond the available recovery time in your programming by having 2 days of deadlifting heavy. Typically the 4-day split is run with a heavy/light or volume/intensity structure split between the two days of the main lifts. Often the Tuesday DL is an accessory lift like paused DL's or snatch grip. These are advanced novice or intermediate programs where gains are only made once /week. Like you noted above, you feel there should still be more to your LP and I agree where gains can come closer to a novice schedule. LP is shorter for Masters. And it may be time to consider shifting to advanced novice, but lets not go there without a fight.

Thanks for taking the time to analyze my question and for your suggestions jbrophy! This is exactly the kind of feedback I was looking for.

I understand that programming my workouts (something which I actually enjoy) is a trial-and-error process with some general principles (e.g., the SRA cycle), guidelines and heuristics based on experience over time and with a large population but, ultimately, with an N=1 sample (myself.)

To find what works best for me, I need to experiment by changing as few variables as possible at the time (ideally one).

I tried 2 sets instead of 3 which helps with recovery but may slow down progress.

Now, as you suggest, I will try to DL only once a week.

Thanks again!

Randy

[Jeff Brophy]

Good luck and keep at it. Let us know if this works or doesn't. The boards work best with followup.

[RandyG]

Hi Lorenzo,

Thank you for the words of encouragement.

I agree with you that I am not competing with other. And, in a way, I am not even competing with myself.

I am competing with aging, with the process that Dr. Sullivan calls the Sick Aging Syndrome: sarcopenia, osteopenia, etc.

I'm in for the long run and I'm in no rush, I'll lift the big numbers when I'm ready for the big numbers.

Same here. One advantage of starting from such a disadvantage position is that I have A LOT of progress to make—a lot of beginner gains.

As jbrophy suggested, in many cases less is more, and I will experiment with fewer DLs sessions instead of cutting my SQ to 2 sets. At least for now.

Best wishes for your own progress and thanks again for the message.

[RandyG]

Will do. Thanks again!

[flatcat]

FWIW, I was untrained when started, and after initial gains, I found I needed to reduce my workouts to twice a week rather than 3x a week. I would get to my third workouts and lose ground. It's taken me a long time to get to what I consider to be decent numbers, but there's no need to rush it. Going conservative is not the worst thing in the world.

For me, my "rule" became I had to be able to lift the weight using as close to perfect form as I could. If I couldn't do the weight with good form, I'd repeat until I could. Also, you can use reps as help in this regard. So for example, you do two sets of five at 185 and your third set is only for three, that's ok - you'll be able to do three sets of five next time. When you do three sets, try doing four sets next time, then add more weight and do three sets at the next workout. Progress is progress, even if it's slow.

Just really be sure that you are using good form before adding the next five pounds, is my advice. Good form will protect you from injury.

My $0.02. I took it really slow and steady this past time, and it's gotten me much farther than I've ever gone before.

[76now]

Excuse me butting in RandyG, with thoughts that might not be appropriate for a youngster, but i am very impressed with what flatcat does.
When you are a fully fledged oldie [i'm almost 78], i think twice a week is really good, & bulking up (as in the common linear progress newbie eating-to-recover-&-build-muscle) is really bad for the old bod.
My muscles are getting wrinkly skin, & if i let my appetite out from control & blew out in size, that skin is never going to shrink down, & i would end up looking like a "don't let this happen to you".
So i keep my waist down, & try to gently build muscles by that ordered, quality progression flatcat uses.
My sport is olympic weightlifting, and you got to recover quick for the platform where successive lifts take place in 2 minute time frames. So i train sets at that pace (not good for strength improvement).
Randy, you are having recovery issues & at some stage you might find 2 tough workouts a week, with the greater time off will help you progress. And you should use flatcat's perfect form & unrushed progression. Injuries are fatal for your physical culture.

[Paulbfast]

Sleep: I'd love to sleep more, but I simply wake and can't go back to sleep up after 6 hours on average. But sleep quality for those 6hrs is good.

There you go. This was not easy to share, but I am glad I did. Thank you again for your input.

As I have gotten older sleep is harder to come by. I am like you most nights - six good hours most of the time and consider it lucky.

At the rec center I was lifting at I was doing 1,000 leg presses. My first SS training session was an empty bar to eleven boxes. I left my pride at the door. We worry too much about what other people think!

Maybe try five sets of three? And rest more! This isn't like running where your heart rate and respiration have dropped so you are ready to go again. Rest just a couple more minutes between sets and see how that goes.

[vernitron]

Hi Randy

I am 62 yo male, 165 lb. Thought I would share what I do so you can perhaps see other possibilities. I had problems with recovery and injury and decided to change to a 4 day split that cycles over 10 days instead of 7.

M: Squat "Heavy", Press "Light"
T: Bench "Heavy, Deadlift "Light"
Th:Squat "Light", Press "Medium"
F: Bench "Light",Deadlift "Medium"
M: Squat "Medium",Press "Heavy"
T: Bench "Medium",Deadlift "Heavy""

On Medium day I increase the weight, right now Squat is 2.5 lb, Bench is 1.25 lb, Press is 1.25 lb and Deadlift is 5 lb
Medium day is 3 sets, 3 reps (Deadlift is 1 set 3 reps)
Heavy day is 5 sets, 3 reps (Deadlift is 2 sets, 3 reps) ( same weight as Medium day)
Light day is 2 sets of 5 and 1 set of 3, (Deadlift is 1 set of 5) each exercise is done at about 95% of the Heavy day

This has really helped me to continue progress, shorten my workout time and seemingly prevent injury (which I am prone to).

Current lifts are Squat:212.5, Bench 153.75, Press 77.5, Deadlift 205

Keep training

Vernon

[RandyG]

Just really be sure that you are using good form before adding the next five pounds, is my advice. Good form will protect you from injury.

My $0.02. I took it really slow and steady this past time, and it's gotten me much farther than I've ever gone before.

Thank you flatcat, wise words.

Perhaps we should include a form rating in our workout records. We tend to focus and improve what we can measure which in this case is they weight, and pay much less attention to that which we cannot measure, in this case form.

Imagine if in addition to weight sets and reps we had a number from F1 to F5 to indicate form for our worst-form rep. For example F1=horrible form, F5=near perfect form.

185x5x3 @ F1 means that you did your sets, but your form was horrible in at least one rep. Don't increase the weight. In fact, decrease it.

185x5x3 @ F3 means that you did your sets with OK but not great form. Don't increase weight.

185x5x3 @F4 your form was pretty good, OK to increase the weight by a reduced amount (fractional plate) next time around.

185x5x3 @F5 perfect form an all reps, you can safely add the full amount of weight the next time.

Of course, the rating would have to be subjective, but I can imagine that with all the advances in AI there will be apps that can judge your form and rate it objectively and accurately. Heck, my phone already recognizes my face, how hard would it be to recognize good vs bad form? OK, a bit hard, but doable.

[RandyG]

Hi 76now, please do butt in. With age comes wisdom, not only wrinkly skin. I appreciate your advice.

With any luck, all of us will get to your age and still lift.

I agree with the "what's the rush?" and the importance of form to avoid injuries.

Thank you for your words of wisdom and congratulations on your ongoing training, you are an example worthy of following.

Randy