Squeezing glutes and quads on press 2.0. Timing is critical.

[spacediver]

I often hear the advice to squeeze the glutes and quads during the press, but in my mind, the timing of this is critical.

When you create the bowed configuration (hips coming forward, torso leaning back), a number of things are happening:

1) the tibia tilts forward (dorsiflexion)
2) the hip extends (presumably primarily through tension in glutes)
3) the quads need to exert enough tension to maintain locked knees, but not so much tension that the hips are prevented from extending
4) the abs have to prevent the spinal hyperextension

During the straightening phase, hip flexion brings the torso upright again. This requires a lot of work from the quads, but during this phase, glute contraction would prevent the hips from flexing.

Once the body is straight, then squeezing both the glutes and quads can prevent the torso from tilting forwards or backwards.

So if this analysis is correct, then during the hips-forward phase, glutes should be squeezed, and quads should be moderately engaged. And during the hips back phase, quads should be tightly squeezed, and glutes should be relaxed. During entire rep, abs should be squeezed hard.

Does this sound about right, or am I missing something?

[marcf]

I often hear the advice to squeeze the glutes and quads during the press, but in my mind, the timing of this is critical.

When you create the bowed configuration (hips coming forward, torso leaning back), a number of things are happening:

1) the tibia tilts forward (dorsiflexion)
2) the hip extends (presumably primarily through tension in glutes)
3) the quads need to exert enough tension to maintain locked knees, but not so much tension that the hips are prevented from extending
4) the abs have to prevent the spinal hyperextension

During the straightening phase, hip flexion brings the torso upright again. This requires a lot of work from the quads, but during this phase, glute contraction would prevent the hips from flexing.

Once the body is straight, then squeezing both the glutes and quads can prevent the torso from tilting forwards or backwards.

So if this analysis is correct, then during the hips-forward phase, glutes should be squeezed, and quads should be moderately engaged. And during the hips back phase, quads should be tightly squeezed, and glutes should be relaxed. During entire rep, abs should be squeezed hard.

Does this sound about right, or am I missing something?

I bolded what I believe is the error in your analysis. The hips go from extension, to over-extension, and back in normal extension again. At no point do they ever go into flexion.

So when your glutes and quads are in isometric contraction at the start of the movement, they are only making it that much harder to force the hips into over-extension, giving the stretch reflex you need to get back into normal standing hip extension.

I could be wrong.

[MBasic]

Glutes flexed would help the bow IMO...as your femur goes backwards . ....

I would think people's knees would have to be bent to some degree to facilitate the bow as well.

So I would think hard flexing of the quad would hurt you here.

We're talking Olympic laid back press btw

[spacediver]

I bolded what I believe is the error in your analysis. The hips go from extension, to over-extension, and back in normal extension again. At no point do they ever go into flexion.

So when your glutes and quads are in isometric contraction at the start of the movement, they are only making it that much harder to force the hips into over-extension, giving the stretch reflex you need to get back into normal standing hip extension.

I could be wrong.

thanks for the response.

Technically, wouldn't going from over-extension to normal-extension be an act of flexion? And regardless of what we call it, this act of going from over to normal extension is achieved by generating torque in the joint by contraction of the hip flexors. And surely squeezing the glutes hard during this act would be counter productive, no?

I take your point about needing quad contraction to prevent over extension (and, as I mentioned in first post, to prevent knee flexion).

What I'm trying to get at here is that the advice to squeeze glutes and quads as hard as possible (without clarifying when to squeeze the respective muscle groups) seems misguided, as this may prevent effective bowing and unbowing.

[spacediver]

Glutes flexed would help the bow IMO...as your femur goes backwards . ....

What do you mean by "femur going backwards"? And are you referring to this happening during the bowing, or the unbowing phase?

I would think people's knees would have to be bent to some degree to facilitate the bow as well.

Not necessarily. If tibia inclines forward, then knees can remain locked (although with more extreme laybacks this becomes more and more difficult).

[marcf]

What I'm trying to get at here is that the advice to squeeze glutes and quads as hard as possible (without clarifying when to squeeze the respective muscle groups) seems misguided, as this may prevent effective bowing and unbowing.

But how effective do we want that bowing and un-bowing motion? If we're going to define effective as efficient, then we'd lose the stretch reflex of the movement because it would be ineffective to bow and un-bow with any resistance. Maybe we want that movement to be as ineffective as possible, or difficult to perform and maintain, so that the tightness from the glutes and quads whip us right back (i.e. the stretch reflex).

I would argue that if you can flex your glutes tightly in normal standing hip extension, going from over-extension back to extension shouldn't be prevented or hampered by contracted glutes.

Lasty, I would think that it is more important to contract your quads and glutes to prevent power leaks in the chain from floor to bar than it is to stress the near-impossible timing of those contractions to make the hip movement more efficient--prioritizing one over the other.

[spacediver]

How does tension in the glutes contribute to the stretch reflex? My understanding is that the stretch reflex occurs in the hip flexors (which is why you want tension in the quads during the bowing phase).

[marcf]

How does tension in the glutes contribute to the stretch reflex? My understanding is that the stretch reflex occurs in the hip flexors (which is why you want tension in the quads during the bowing phase).

My best guess is that they contribute more to the pushing or punching of the hips forward to initiate the hip movement to generate the stretch reflex, so it's contributing in that aspect. Otherwise, the only other way I can think of starting that movement without the aid of the glutes is by forcefully leaning back and over-extending the lumbar spine, which we don't want.

I would think of it as a hip thrust, and when I think of hip thrusters with the barbell, it's a glute exercise.

So, I wouldn't worry about timing a glute contraction for the sake of making an effective hip movement for the press. After having this discussion, I think the case can be made that the glutes should stay contracted through the entire movement. To start, it helps prevent a leak of power in the hips, it aids in initiating the hip thrust, and when the hips return the glutes continue to prevent power leaking as you pass the barbell over your forehead to full lockout.

[spacediver]

yea, as you said, I find I'm able to do the bow-unbow bounce pretty effectively even when my glutes are squeezed. Perhaps I've got some of the physics or biomechanical modeling wonky in my head.

[John Hanley]

I often hear the advice to squeeze the glutes and quads during the press, but in my mind, the timing of this is critical.

When you create the bowed configuration (hips coming forward, torso leaning back), a number of things are happening:

1) the tibia tilts forward (dorsiflexion)
2) the hip extends (presumably primarily through tension in glutes)
3) the quads need to exert enough tension to maintain locked knees, but not so much tension that the hips are prevented from extending
4) the abs have to prevent the spinal hyperextension

During the straightening phase, hip flexion brings the torso upright again. This requires a lot of work from the quads, but during this phase, glute contraction would prevent the hips from flexing.

Once the body is straight, then squeezing both the glutes and quads can prevent the torso from tilting forwards or backwards.

So if this analysis is correct, then during the hips-forward phase, glutes should be squeezed, and quads should be moderately engaged. And during the hips back phase, quads should be tightly squeezed, and glutes should be relaxed. During entire rep, abs should be squeezed hard.

Does this sound about right, or am I missing something?

I think this is an excellent analysis.

But...the press 2.0 is a borderline ballistic movement. You can't simultaneously think about the volitional sequence of contraction and properly contract in sequence. It just won't happen. It's like thinking about releasing the "throw antagonist muscles" in the .2 seconds at the start of a javelin toss.

So, your challenge (and the challenge that I struggled with so much): how do you translate the results of this analysis into "cue"?