Lose weight before starting?

[Bean438]

Actually dalton it’s neither of those two things. I last lifted in 2004. I sold all my weights and went down the p90x route, cardio and body weight training. “Weightlifting was for young people”. Then I got divorced in 2009. All training stopped. I simply did not care about anything. Then I quit my second job (it was very physical) because I got rid of the spend happy ex, and I got sick of paying more tax as others sat and contributed nothing to society.
My weight slowly climbed because of less calories burned. I lived off of fast food to the point that the staff knew me by name. Boxed frozen pizzas were standard fare.
Then I met my current spouse. She has been very good to me. She’s an amazing cook.
Since 2009 the weight went from 200..215..225, then it was 247, and now we’re approaching 270.

I look like shit, feel like shit, I’m tired , and get winded easily. I have a hard time breathing when I bend over to put socks on.
I have a lot of visceral fat.

I’m done living like this. It ends now!

I also suffer from paralysis from analysis. And there’s so much conflicting information. Dr Sullivan’s book really hit home with his aging phenotype. I don’t want to be that guy.

It kinda makes sense to lose 70 pounds and then get right into the SS program, but it also makes sense to just start SS and clean up the eating. Lifting burns calories, adds muscle which burns calories. It also builds some cardio.
BUT kettle bell swings also build some muscle while burning,fat. Tracey reifkind lost tons of weight doing swings. I read about her in Tim Ferris ‘s book 4 hour body.

[Dalton Clark]

Sorry Bean438. I realize that me not specifying who I was addressing has caused an issue. I wasn't referring to you with my last post but to Nockian. Specifically, I was addressing his statement that trying to do both weight training and losing weight caused him too much stress. I am sorry if this misunderstanding upset you. I also apologize for creating a debate between Nockian and myself inside of your thread. I am afraid that the two of us have very different views on how things should be done.

YouTube

This youtube link - which hopefully does link to youtube - has some nuggets of advice about weight loss and strength training and how to marry the two. I may not be as old as you are (I'm 24) nor have I ever weighed 270 pounds. Only 200 in middle school in an extremely fatty body composition. What tends to happen with people in your demographic who clean up the eating, cut their calories and all that. . .is that they have favorable body composition changes. Mark Rippetoe has interviewed Crystal Riner and Leah Lutz - two women who both lost around 100 pounds on Starting Strength with no other activity. Those interviews are available on youtube. I just want to combat the info that you can't do Starting Strength and have great results starting. . .tomorrow.

[Jenni]

To be blunt, I’m fat. Really fat, like 270 pounds fat. I’m 46. When I was 20 I weighed 179. Not a roided out 179.

I understand a beginner can gain muscle and lose fat but would I be best served in losing a lot of weight before I commence the starting strength program?

I did it. I'm still fat, I still have weight to lose. But I've already lost more than you have to lose and kept it off through illness and deaths and other types of stress. Do the program and eat well. Don't be an idiot. Don't get the calories you need to recover from Big Macs and marshmallow creme. If your squat doesn't quite reach parallel because you're fat just do the best you can, it will soon.
What people don't realize about us fatties is that we've already developed some big ass muscles toting around our big asses. Amazing things happen when you start asking more of those muscles.

[Jenni]

May I add:

I look like shit, feel like shit, I’m tired , and get winded easily. I have a hard time breathing when I bend over to put socks on.
I have a lot of visceral fat.

....

I also suffer from paralysis from analysis. And there’s so much conflicting information.

I resemble that remark. I actually started on barbells because I was too fat to do anything, really. 15 minutes on the treadmill at maybe 2.0 was a struggle.

I also get the paralysis. It's one reason I try to talk to people about what I've done. I got really frustrated with the lack of good information and the greed very early on and decided I was going to experiment. I tried things honestly, journaled, kept track of effects and small changes. The truth is difficult and not sexy and not even really exciting. Starting Strength is 100% your best bang for your buck even if your goal involves large fat loss. If I could buy a copy for every fat person in the country I would. So many people are out there lying their asses off to us and then even when we bust our asses and do all the "right" things they manage to sabotage us with Bagel Tuesdays and fat free cookies. It's ridiculous. I don't know how to get Rip's voice to outweigh the noise any more than he does but he has the answer.

[Bean438]

Dalton.... not upset in the least. I did in fact think you were referring to me, and still no offense taken. Don’t even think that you’ve hijacked my thread either. I’m all about a free exchange of ideas.
Jenni I appreciate your posts.

[Les Hahn]

Do both at the same time. :-) You can slowly lose weight, like 1-2# per week, and at your size you will still make great progress. Don't let the paralysis keep you from lifting weights. The first thing I would do is get into the gym asap and start running the program. Just start and don't stop! Then you can look at how you want to tweak your diet while lifting at the same time. It isn't like you have to get your diet nailed right away before you start. You will learn as you go.

[Nockian]

If the recovery cannot be increased to allow adaptation to the provided stress due to caloric restriction in the effort of improving body composition, then the stress is too great. This is standard fare for individuals who have a large amount of fat to lose. Plenty of middle aged, fat men have had great success with performing Starting Strength while in a small caloric deficit. By a small caloric deficit I am talking about 300 calories a day. The weight loss will be slow, but it will allow them to increase strength, improve their quality of life, and ensure compliance with their diet by seeing tangible results on the bar. As long as the trainee understands that they are in a caloric deficit and not a 20 year old male, the program can be run reasonable close to as written. The overweight trainee is addressed in the books as a special population. Your experience simply indicates one of two things: you implemented the methodology incorrectly or you gave up. I have no way of telling which this is but being an optimistic person I'll assume the former.

I didn't begin from 'starting strength' methodology. I initially looked at diet because I was quite honestly fucked. I had severe indigestion, overweight, blood pressure, constant migranes, tinnitus, anxiety attacks, sleep issues and dizzy spells. I was on all kinds of medication and each trip to the doctor increased either the number, or the strength. Had I just gone on a minor carb restricted diet and taken up weights then what would the chances have been of coming off those pills ?

I think you are being too simplistic. If someone was just obese and was relatively under stressed in other aspects of their health, then sure, I agree, but we aren't all homogenous lab rats that respond to an identical regime. Each of us has particular issues that have an order of sorting. One size really does not fit all, it just gives a good guide. There is plenty of evidence to show that lifting weights is good for you and so it should be incorporated-at some point.

For me, and here I mean only me, I had to get my diet sorted out first in order to reduce the stresses on my body which were causing all the other problems, creating a vicious cycle of exhaustion, anxiety and illness. It wasn't simply a matter of cutting a few calories, it was a radical overhaul to put my body right. I knew about weight training, but I held off until I had sorted the other issues first. When I felt capable, then I applied the next stage. It worked.

I'm not telling the OP he shouldn't plunge right on in. I can't know his particular circumstances with any accuracy, but I can at least give him an overview of where I was and what worked. For me it was to realise that I have years ahead of me and don't need to try and shoe horn everything into a need for rapid progress over a couple of months-I think in years not weeks. I want to build the foundation's solid, then make every brick count without trying to rush the job. You have to figure out what ails you; what needs the most immediate attention and where to put that effort for the greatest gains.

[Nockian]

Actually dalton it’s neither of those two things. I last lifted in 2004. I sold all my weights and went down the p90x route, cardio and body weight training. “Weightlifting was for young people”. Then I got divorced in 2009. All training stopped. I simply did not care about anything. Then I quit my second job (it was very physical) because I got rid of the spend happy ex, and I got sick of paying more tax as others sat and contributed nothing to society.
My weight slowly climbed because of less calories burned. I lived off of fast food to the point that the staff knew me by name. Boxed frozen pizzas were standard fare.
Then I met my current spouse. She has been very good to me. She’s an amazing cook.
Since 2009 the weight went from 200..215..225, then it was 247, and now we’re approaching 270.

I look like shit, feel like shit, I’m tired , and get winded easily. I have a hard time breathing when I bend over to put socks on.
I have a lot of visceral fat.

I’m done living like this. It ends now!

I also suffer from paralysis from analysis. And there’s so much conflicting information. Dr Sullivan’s book really hit home with his aging phenotype. I don’t want to be that guy.

It kinda makes sense to lose 70 pounds and then get right into the SS program, but it also makes sense to just start SS and clean up the eating. Lifting burns calories, adds muscle which burns calories. It also builds some cardio.
BUT kettle bell swings also build some muscle while burning,fat. Tracey reifkind lost tons of weight doing swings. I read about her in Tim Ferris ‘s book 4 hour body.

Do you have any other health, stress issues, or is it just being overweight and unfit ? I say 'just' because it really isn't the worst thing in the world to be fat and unfit, it's a good starting point. I wasn't that overweight and not even that unfit in terms of coping with activity, but my body was suffering in other ways. If you are otherwise healthy and reasonably stress free, then Daltons is likely right-just cut out a few calories and start on the novice program. You might want to think of utilising intermittent fasting to shed a few calories without having to count every damned morsel of food. You could start at 9 hours and work your way to 12 and 16.

[Charlie Davies]

Re: too much stress to start both diet and SS at once, this is probably very individual.

Some people will probably *gain* motivation for their diet efforts from the confidence that lifting provides. Others will stress out too much, particularly if their diet is too restrictive or they push the weights up too fast.

If I were in your situation, Bean, I'd start both at once, but gently. I.e. a slow weight-loss, and conservative weight increases on the bar.

Anyway, good luck! It sounds like you are in a good place to start from.

[Ericsquats]

1. Make most of your diet whole foods.

2. Learn the lifts, do them for 3x5 and add weight for as many workouts as you can.

That alone should make you lose weight and get stronger. Worry about all the nitty gritty details after you have made those changes.