Lose weight before starting?

[Bean438]

To be blunt, I’m fat. Really fat, like 270 pounds fat. I’m 46. When I was 20 I weighed 179. Not a roided out 179.

I understand a beginner can gain muscle and lose fat but would I be best served in losing a lot of weight before I commence the starting strength program?

[Lawrie Abbott]

There is no perfect time to start.

So start now.

You may have some issues getting into correct positions however, working with a SS coach will avoid that and may other beginner issues.

The best powerlifters weigh much more than you, so get strong first, then worry about your size (google Jezza Uepa) You may find that the process of losing the fat will be easier if you are carrying more muscle.

Jordan maintains the Nutrition forum and his posts have plenty of good information....find his article, To Be a Beast for some basic nutrition guidelines.

You may also need to see a doctor before embarking on any strenuous exercise, but unless there are some existing issues, you should not have any issues following novice progression.

[Tom Narvaez]

Just do both at the same time.

Losing weight is more important for your quality of life in this instance and I’d prioritize it over trying to maximize LP. There’s a prevailing notion that you will “ruin” your only chance at LP if you do it in a caloric deficit, but you can always run LP again at a future date while you’re in a surplus. I’ve run numerous LPs coming back from injuries, layoffs or what have you and I tend to go further every time than I did initially.

There’s no reason to endure being 25%+ body fat for the sake of the LP. It’s one of the more ridiculous things that this board tends to tacitly encourage.

[Rajtar]

To be blunt, I’m fat. Really fat, like 270 pounds fat. I’m 46. When I was 20 I weighed 179. Not a roided out 179.

I understand a beginner can gain muscle and lose fat but would I be best served in losing a lot of weight before I commence the starting strength program?

Doing a program an going on calorie deficit will be very beneficial for you. One of the first people i trained was my wife and her goal was to simply loose weight, she was over 50 lbs overweight. In 6 months of doing the program and reducing her calorie intake she lost 50 lbs and is one of the strongest women if not the strongest in the gym. Losing weight and gaining strength is possible if done correctly. I have been coaching people for a while now and if you need any more help or advice end me a pm i will be happy to help.

[Nockian]

Do the weights, or do the dieting. The reason I suggest this is that both will put stress on your nervous system and combined it might well result in a viscious circle of poor recovery, poor sleep, leading to more stress and the result will be a double failure.

If you have decided to diet, then make it a lifestyle choice and not some short term thing. You need to establish a habit for life. Don't even try to do this overnight, because, you haven't managed it until now, so it isn't going to be easy. Start small, by removing alcohol, or sugar. Get used to refusing it and feeling good about doing so. Exercise wants to be low impact - walk, or at the most some HIT training such as a twice per week standing jumps onto the bottom step of the stairs for 20/30 seconds for 3/4 reps with a rest period that brings that heart rate back to normal in between.

If you choose Barbell training, then the most you should do for your diet is to reduce empty calories like alcohol and sugar by restricting them to fewer and fewer days a week.

Either way you go, then regular habit will result in strength gains or fat loss. You will feel incrementally better about yourself and then it is easier to make further adjustment. Whichever you choose it must be about permanent change and not fad. If you haven't reached the bottom of the barrel and haven't the comittment, then don't bother with either route.

A quick autobiographical story. In April of this year we went on holiday to Florence. I was a stone and a bit overweight, on BP meds and on tablets for constant migraines. I'm 57 years old. I was not what I would consider unfit-I walk 3 miles every day and more at the weekend. I've spent most of my life on mountain bikes, climbing, caving or walking so regularly active. During my trip to Florence I realised that I could no longer just do a bit more exercise, or do a bit of dieting because my body no longer soaked up these kind of fad changes without spilling over and causing poor sleep and even bad anxiety. It came to a head when I pondered my fitness to climb to the top of the Duomo and the horrible realisation dawned that if I didn't start caring for my body, then post sixty old was going to be pretty bleak.

I took the diet route, I didn't know about strength training then. I lost the stone, came off all the meds as my BP fell. Once I was stable in my eating and sleeping, only then did I consider hard exercise.

If I were you I would begin by cleaning up your diet, incorporating low stress exercise like walking or moderate HIT. Make sure that you are kind to your body, reduce as much stress as you can in all areas, ensure that you are sleeping properly and that each day does not start with a dash for the coffee pot to bring you around. Make it a slow crawl and not a sprint. Make small goals and stick to them-each win will help you embed the good habits for life. Only when you have stabilised then consider Barbell training. For younger people they have a far higher tolerance to rapid stress changes, but as we age, we can't do it, the stress impact is too high and we are likely to fail in all areas as a result.

Good luck, it can be done and the sooner you begin the better.m

[Nockian]

I wanted to add that the critical thing is to monitor stress and sleep quality. That if you feel tired, irritable, anxious, hungry, aching, sore, have indigestion etc - these are signs of your body in stress. If you need a nip of whisky to 'calm you down' or a tablet to calm heart burn, or coffee/exercise to get you going, then these are all bad stressors. They are clear signs something is wrong.

Don't regard your new regime as being a contest of will with your body-you will lose. It's not about priestly will power, or toughing it out. If you are having cravings after cutting out some foods - then guess what ? Something isn't right and you are adding stress. Even tiny changes have to be easily accommodated, because if it hurts, if you can't get your mind off the lack/inclusion of something then your under stress. Each change should be relatively easy and if it isn't, then you will need to review that change and look for the issue that's making it hard.

[Bean438]

Couple of questions....

What’s LP? And how much weight is a stone?

In addition to starting strength I’ve also read Dr. Sullivan’s Barbell prescription. It is EXCELLENT, if anyone hasn’t read it I recommend it.

It’s the reason I posted my question because Dr Sullivan lists low body fat as important to the masters athlete, whereas SS suggests to “build an ice chest before the 6 pack”.

I absolutely loved lifting when I was doing it. I hate LISS so I’ll end up not doing it. The “best” excersise is the one you actually do so I bought a few kettlebells for some swings... HITt style.

Sleep is fine, now that I have my c pap. (Had undiagnosed apnea for years). If I can give anything back to the community it’s this.... if you snore get a sleeep study. It could save your life, and at the very least make you feel a whole lot better.

My diet needs the most work. I won’t tell you what I eat because you simply won’t believe me, and you’ll wonder as my doctor does, how does my body tolerate it? No diabetes, yet...... and blood work is,fine.

But one day the body may say times up.

It’s time to reclaim my body. As I progress I’m gonna reward myself with “treats”.

1. As I lose weight I’m gonna get a belt. Actually 2. A 4”, and a 3”. I’m too fat now and will end up having to by more belts if I buy now, so after reaching target weight I get the reward.

2. Gonna replace my “300 oly set, bar included” with a new b&r bar. Regrettably I gave away an old, old York bar, bare steel that my grandfather gave me. Stupid mistake. I went through the p90x phase and thought weights are for young people. Gonna keep the plates, but man do I miss that bar. Other than those 3 days in Vegas, it was the dumbest thing I did , giving it away.

3. Shoes. I always lifted barefoot or in “chucks”. Never used real lifting shoes. This isn’t gonna be a reward, I’m just gonna buy them. Weight loss will not require a new pair

[Dalton Clark]

LP is linear progression typically used to refer to any strength training regime in which you add weight to the bar every workout. Specifically, it often refers to the Starting Strength Novice Linear Progression as described in Starting Strength and Practical Programming for Weight Training.

A stone is 14 pounds.

The ice chest is referring to muscular body weight. Additional fat gain is rarely encouraged unless it promotes a sufficient lean body mass increase to justify it. In your case, this does not apply.

You can diet and lift weights at the same time. You just want to take the 'steady wins the race' approach and aim to lose a pound a week or so. Sure, it will be slow going but you will also be getting stronger which is a great reward system to keep at it. I wouldn't recommend that you diet first before doing resistance training since there are many more health benefits to being strong and fit than there are to being 'skinny'.

Nockian,

No strength training regime is ever easy. Nothing worth doing in life is ever 'easy'. Your body is used to a particular set of conditions and deviating from the norm introduces stress. This is completely fine. It is expected. In fact, this 'stress' is the reason why weight training works. It is the reason why diets work. The stress is causing your body to adapt for the better. This is a principle that forms the foundation of every sentence about diet/programming/training that Mark Rippetoe has ever published.

[Nockian]

It appears to me that every piece of advice in Marks books includes that of 'sufficient recovery'. Even under the bar, between sets, Mark says to add two more minutes rest when you feel ready to lift again. I've done the 'try and do it all at once' training/diet regime and the result was less than healthy adaption. More is less. Nearing 50, overweight and unfit needs a more gentle approach in order for the effort not to overcome the potential improvements.

[Dalton Clark]

If the recovery cannot be increased to allow adaptation to the provided stress due to caloric restriction in the effort of improving body composition, then the stress is too great. This is standard fare for individuals who have a large amount of fat to lose. Plenty of middle aged, fat men have had great success with performing Starting Strength while in a small caloric deficit. By a small caloric deficit I am talking about 300 calories a day. The weight loss will be slow, but it will allow them to increase strength, improve their quality of life, and ensure compliance with their diet by seeing tangible results on the bar. As long as the trainee understands that they are in a caloric deficit and not a 20 year old male, the program can be run reasonable close to as written. The overweight trainee is addressed in the books as a special population. Your experience simply indicates one of two things: you implemented the methodology incorrectly or you gave up. I have no way of telling which this is but being an optimistic person I'll assume the former.