D1 Training..Success?

[Kyle Stevens]

Summarized background. I'm a high school football and track coach and have helped for several years in our weight room. Also was an NAIA athlete (NAIA is somewhere between D2 and D3).

Speaking from a high school perspective our HS S/C coach was doing a lot of goofy shit. Our school ran the "Velocity" program and IT. WAS. SHIT. I whispered in his ear for a few years and got him to do traditional deadlifts and more overhead pressing. That being said he still does a lot of goofy shit. From what I've heard from one of my former athletes who played at an FCS school is that it was a ton of olympic lifts and weighted push ups and dips with chains. This could have just been part of a cycle he was explaining. I have also heard the University of Iowa SC coach talk at a conference and he said that their goal is to "get their kids back squatting and to get them strong as shit". There is a lot of bad out there, but there is some people who get parts of what is effective.

From my observation I think a lot of it is keeping the athletes "happy" and "entertained". Doing 3 sets of 5 for months is a drag as most of us can attest to, and many of these kids are whiney bitches who don't want to work hard, or attempt to lift way more than they are capable of with no technique and are not very coachable. Teenagers are pretty miserable people and coaching them can be equally miserable. That being said, I have aspirations of being a Head Coach someday and my athletes will be using a Starting Strength template and they will be stronger than their opponents. Hopefully coach by coach and 1 program at a time, people stop doing goofy shit and start applying what WE know is effective to their SC programs.

[John Hanley]

Especially for sports where technique is much more important than strength

D1 sports coaches play a huge role in S&C programming (in many cases even lifting mechanics) [the head S&C coach is almost always totally distracted by football].

I think you’d find that for sports in which strength is critically important, oh like field events, D1 perennial powerhouses actually have some of the best S&C training in - literally - the world.

###

I’m recalling a conversation with Adam Nelson’s sport coach, Carl WalIin, about the merits of Bondarchuk’s programming. I was 17. It took me 18 years to realize how well he knew his shit.

Aside over.

###

Anyway, yeah, outside the safe space of arguments with all premises assumed as true (naturally, to the benefit and reinforcing the position of an in-group), shit gets complicated.

The assumption of true premises is happening a lot around here lately.

[John Hanley]

^ Bondarchuk was not a household name in ‘96 & — in the US — I’m pretty sure his methods were limited to field cosches.

Zatsiorky had just written THE BOOK.

“Strength and Power in Sport” was unpublished.

Yeah, S&C has gotten better.

[Sean Herbison]

D1 sports coaches play a huge role in S&C programming (in many cases even lifting mechanics) [the head S&C coach is almost always totally distracted by football].

My biggest regret about lifting in college is that I wasn't taught the mechanics at all. I think it was just assumed that we knew what we were doing. I wonder how much better I could have done if I wasn't basically crippled by knee and back pain my last two years.

Very, very driven athlete + terrible form = a bad time. Part of me really wishes I had lifting video from that time, and part of me is glad that it doesn't exist. Moreso the former, though.

I think you’d find that for sports in which strength is critically important, oh like field events, D1 perennial powerhouses actually have some of the best S&C training in - literally - the world.

Ah, powerhouses. That would explain it. Kidding. Kind of. We did win conference both indoor and outdoor pretty handily my senior year once BYU left our conference.

Actually our programming wasn't bad. Lots of O lifts and heavy squats. Could've been better, but it was a lot better than a lot of what I see... Or at least the throwers and (usually) the football team's training was. The basketball, golf, soccer, etc. (pretty much anyone else) program was not a pretty sight in the weight room. Lots of light quarter squatting and single leg fluff going on.

The assumption of true premises is happening a lot around here lately.

Always something to watch out for.

[John Hanley]

My biggest regret about lifting in college is that I wasn't taught the mechanics at all. I think it was just assumed that we knew what we were doing. I wonder how much better I could have done if I wasn't basically crippled by knee and back pain my last two years.

Very, very driven athlete + terrible form = a bad time. Part of me really wishes I had lifting video from that time, and part of me is glad that it doesn't exist. Moreso the former, though[/SIZE].

My biggest regret is that I was a talented sack of shit. My throws coach was a remarkable, massively-strong and patient man, and I utterly ignored him. As a coach at a small state liberal arts school, he had shit talent to work with. You would've done really well at my school methinks.

Ah, powerhouses. That would explain it. Kidding. Kind of.

You think Don Babbitt's lifters are implementing poor S&C decisions?

I'm imagining OP walking into a lifting session of Georgia throwers "Gentlemen, gentlemen, I have applied a rational analysis; all of this [grand gesture] is suboptimal.

Let's

get

fucking

real.

Sorry, sorry; that was rude: let's ensure conclusion derived from our deductive processes map to reality

[George Christiansen]

More money in sports --> more incentive --> bigger talent pool --> better athletes. And drugs of course play their part, more in some sports than others.


.

Agree and agree.

We're finding better athletes, getting them into a lifestyle that is probably more pampered and less distracted than NFL player had 20 years ago, and then we have all the incredible improvements in technology to help.

[John Hanley]

We're finding better athletes, getting them into a lifestyle that is probably more pampered and less distracted than NFL player had 20 years ago

So only D1 athletes in sports with lucrative professional prospects are getting bigger, faster and stronger?

[George Christiansen]

So only D1 athletes in sports with lucrative professional prospects are getting bigger, faster and stronger?

Don't know why you'd conclude that from my statement.

A D1 school is almost certainly going to be better on both those counts, but applies in more cases than not anywhere for the same reasons even if thing are scales based upon the talent and the school.

[John Hanley]

but applies in more cases than not anywhere for the same reasons even if thing are scales based upon the talent and the school.

Can you...write that again using different words? I honestly can't figure out what you're saying.

[Sean Herbison]

You would've done really well at my school methinks.

Hmmm... We'll never know. Now stop trying to add to my list of regrets, it's already too long. If I ever want to write a novel, I'll just start listing them.

You think Don Babbitt's lifters are implementing poor S&C decisions?

No idea, I've only seen a bit of what he was doing with Reese Hoffa, really. (Speaking of which, want to see something cool? Give me a few minutes.) But like you said elsewhere, track and field is pretty well insulated from a lot of the distractions that other training programs sometimes fall into.

Anyway, I see both sides of it, and I'm kind of tired of both sides (not saying you represent either extreme). On one side, you've got guys who think D1 and pro coaches are the best strength coaches on the planet because, well, look at their athletes! "Stephen Curry deadlifting 400+? Amazing!"

And on the other you've got guys who want to entirely discount anyone who works with the genetic elite and thinks all pro athletes regardless of sport should squat at least 500 lbs, because most of them have a good vertical jump.

The whole concept that this is a simple matter needs to be thrown in the trash where it belonged from the start. It's like Jordan says: "nuance".