starting strength gym
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 17

Thread: Barbell Rows?

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    129

    Default Barbell Rows?

    • starting strength seminar april 2024
    • starting strength seminar jume 2024
    • starting strength seminar august 2024
    So currently I have been utilizing the Barbell Row 3x5 while running NLP. I chose this because i am able to row more weight with the barbell, and i am all about doing what enables me to lift the most weight as a novice. I am currently at the 200lb mark with the barbell 3x5, but at 6 feet 220, I still struggle mightily with pull-ups. I was wondering if dropping the weight some, and moving over to traditional bent rows may suit me well. The negative of the barbell is that it touches the ground on the negative with a shorter ROM. I feel upper back strength is lagging a little behind my other lifts, and would like to get it more up to speed. Which would you guys prefer?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    729

    Default

    I think you could go ether way.

    If you did some strict bent rows, that might be a nice transition into chin-ups later on.

    Sure

  3. #3

    Default

    I'm assuming by "bent row" you're talking about unracking the bar from jhooks, bending over 45 degrees, and then jerking it to your lower belly in whatever way you can to get the weight up. No, don't do that lol.

    If you change the exercise I also ask you whether or not you're really getting "stronger" or if you're just moving different amounts of weight through different motions expressing the strength you already have. I know that sounds weird, but let's take for example a push up. Let's say you want a stronger chest, so week one you do standard push ups for 35 reps and then the next week you use diamond push ups for 18 reps, and then the next week you use decline push ups for 22 reps, and then yadda yadda other variations for various repetitions. I ask you, after doing all these other variations has your chest gotten stronger? Or have you just expressed the strength you already had through different movements? Hard to tell, and it's especially hard to tell on things like the "Bro-Barbell Row" because people tend to really start jerking more and more as the weight gets heavier begging the question whether they really got stronger (That's what I used to do, and I can tell you I definitely cheated more and more lol)

    There's no need to change the exercise, just keep focusing on getting stronger on the exercise you're using currently. This is a very good video on how to do the barbell row well posted by SS:YouTube.
    There's also a good tutorial on how to do them in SS 3rd edition.

    Also, 200 lbs on barbell rows? That's pretty solid. Good job, eavdr10 haha

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    357

    Default

    Leave the assumption to do "everything that lets you do the most weight on the bar". With that thought, we would do isometric holds in biomechanically advantageous positions all day.

    Think of what you really want an exercise to do for you: You mentioned "upper back strength" and "I struggle mightily with pull-ups". So there you have two legit goals to choose a variation for.

    The first one is more unspecific than the second one. To help with pull-ups, you would choose a row that trains the lats heavily, as a close grip row to the belly. But, as a novice, you profit more from a well rounded exercise selection than getting an assistance exercise to pull-ups (just do pull-ups for the moment). Youre right that upper back strength often lacks in people, be it due being slouched at a desk the whole day or the fact that there isnt any dynamic exercise apart from rows that tackles more mid traps and rhomboids (pull-up focusing more on lats).

    So youre better off taking a row that does that job: Wide grip (that probably means overhand for you because that is more physiological for your elbows and shoulders), pull to the chest.

    Next stop: trunk position. The more upright, the more upper traps come into play and mid traps and rhombos participation decreases - not your goal with that exercise. So pull roughly perpendicular to your chest against the resistance.

    Speaking of which: That can be a barbell, dumbbells or even cables and machines. The latter ones take your lower back mostly out of the equation. That can be an advantage or disadvantage, depending on the rest of the program. In SS, you mostly can get away with a barbell, because you dont deadlift that much and often and because of the overall nature of a novice (program). Keep that in mind for later training programs as an intermediate.

    Lastly, eccentric portion: The eccentric portion adds to the effectiveness of an exercise to build muscles. If you want to get big and strong upper back muscles, use it. The Pendlay row doesnt, because it caters to the needs of weightlifters. (Elite Chinese weightlifters do quite a lot of typical "bodybuilding" concentric-eccentric exercises to build mucsle and thus strength potential, though.) Im not that happy with the otherwise excellent SS video above for that reason, because general strength means general muscle. And using also the eccentric portion of a row builds both very well.

    There you have it: Row to your chest with a wide grip roughly perpendicular to the resistance, use a barbell (or dumbbells or cables or machines - youre definitely NDTP, then, gasp!) and use the eccentric portion of the row. You can call it whatever you please - maybe: "row"? Enjoy and get strong!

  5. #5
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    519

    Default

    The barbell row from the floor has a bigger ROM for the elbow and shoulder. Since the lats are responsible for that shoulder ROM and a longer ROM+heavy weight is generally better for hypertrophy, you'd be best served by starting them from the floor still but trying to maintain that horizontal back angle as you row. How many pull ups can you currently do? You could both pull ups and rows in the NLP.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    May 2016
    Posts
    357

    Default

    Yeah, its important to look at the actual ROM and direction of movement. Perpendicular to the chest is good (see above for the reasons ). If it has to be off the floor depends on your setup: you can pull from any height that allows you to keep your back extendend, roughly parellel to the floor, with your elbows also roughly extended in the starting position. Btw, that can also mean that you can raise the bar level a bit to make that more comfortable. For example, in the vid above RIP has some troubles with extending the upper back in the starting position off the floor. Of course, that may very well stem from individual restrictions, but if it isnt in your case, youre not obliged to start from the floor.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Eavdr10 I'm a tall Novice lifter as well.

    I've complicated on either doing rows or pendlays as well. My game plan is sticking with the row initially because you are constantly holding the bar and this is really helping me out with the foundation work of my stabilizers muscles biceps and forearms. I'm planning on switching to pendlays when my grip starts compromising my back development.

    Negatives for taller lifters also is a great benefit because of our ROM. Perhaps fart around with negative pullups or chins for a 4 second count coming down.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    May 2018
    Posts
    1,226

    Default

    Is there a reason you’re not doing Power Cleans as prescribed by the SSNLP?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2018
    Location
    Edmonton
    Posts
    9

    Default

    Rotator Cuff pain maintenance and to be completely transparent, I frickin love rows and chose to do them over PCs. I accept the hinderance it will do to my future in pushing weight.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2018
    Posts
    729

    Default

    starting strength coach development program
    Quote Originally Posted by Eric Schexnayder View Post
    Is there a reason you’re not doing Power Cleans as prescribed by the SSNLP?
    I don't think anyone said specifically that they weren't power-cleaning ... just talking about the different row variations was the topic... 6 months ago I might add.

    Anyways, yeah, very few people do the power cleans; its common to swap out for rows around here.
    You'll notice that there are very very very few form checks in the Technique Sub-forum for power cleans.
    I don't think that's because everyone is doing them just fine and totally confident their technique is 100% A-O-K.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •