Help Guide My Training

[Rodolfo Bryant]

I'm working my way through NLP for the second time in my life, this time with more gumption and resources. My current lifts are as follows:

SQ: 330x5x3
OHP: 155x5x3
BP: 210x5x3
DL: 340x5
PC: 165x33x5

(Height: 6' 1"; Weight: 223; Age: 28)

My squat is catching up to my DL, obviously due to programming. I've carried a 30 lb lead on DL until I started alternating PCs every other workout two weeks ago. I didn't actually fail a lift before making this programming change, though maybe I should have. My press and bench are currently in PR territory, and my squat and dead either are as well, or will be soon (last go at NLP was ~8 years ago, no records). Things are going well, but getting heavy.


My questions are:

Should I have swapped Wednesday's DL for PC, leaving me two DL slots per week (per recent conversation among the SS crew); or should I continue per the book (alternate DL and PC every other workout)?

I want to add chins to my program, when is a good time (both along my progression, and on which days) to add them?


I don't want to make too many programming changes at once, but I don't want to delay the addition of chin ups. Let's talk about it, what do you guys think?

(more details in my log; link in sig)

[Jeff Illingworth]

Try chins on your clean day.

If you want more pulling volume, instead of changing your schedule, try adding a back off set on a dead day.

[Rodolfo Bryant]

Try chins on your clean day.

If you want more pulling volume, instead of changing your schedule, try adding a back off set on a dead day.

You recommend I keep alternating DL and PC in an A-B format, add chins to the PC day, which ends up having me DL, PC, and chin, each three times every two weeks?

I'm asking about the DL, not because I want to add volume, but rather I think the logical step would be to titrate frequency down at the least effective increment. For instance, if I can't recover from DL 3x a week, shouldn't I drop it to 2x a week first? Then 1x? This would allow the rate of progress to be greater for a period.

[Charles Jenkins]

You recommend I keep alternating DL and PC in an A-B format, add chins to the PC day, which ends up having me DL, PC, and chin, each three times every two weeks?

I'm asking about the DL, not because I want to add volume, but rather I think the logical step would be to titrate frequency down at the least effective increment. For instance, if I can't recover from DL 3x a week, shouldn't I drop it to 2x a week first? Then 1x? This would allow the rate of progress to be greater for a period.

Why are you thinking in terms of weeks? You're a novice (though a late novice, most likely), and you should be thinking about how long it takes you to recover for the next heavy day, not how much you can recover in a week. If you can recover fully on Saturday and Sunday to pull a new PR on Monday, then so be it. But the question is how long it takes you to recover for your next heavy day, not how much volume you can fit in a week.

[jonfla]

I'm working my way through NLP for the second time in my life, this time with more gumption and resources. My current lifts are as follows:

SQ: 330x5x3
OHP: 155x5x3
BP: 210x5x3
DL: 340x5
PC: 165x33x5

(Height: 6' 1"; Weight: 223; Age: 28)

My squat is catching up to my DL, obviously due to programming. I've carried a 30 lb lead on DL until I started alternating PCs every other workout two weeks ago. I didn't actually fail a lift before making this programming change, though maybe I should have. My press and bench are currently in PR territory, and my squat and dead either are as well, or will be soon (last go at NLP was ~8 years ago, no records). Things are going well, but getting heavy.


My questions are:

Should I have swapped Wednesday's DL for PC, leaving me two DL slots per week (per recent conversation among the SS crew); or should I continue per the book (alternate DL and PC every other workout)?

I want to add chins to my program, when is a good time (both along my progression, and on which days) to add them?


I don't want to make too many programming changes at once, but I don't want to delay the addition of chin ups. Let's talk about it, what do you guys think?

(more details in my log; link in sig)

I seem to recall the Barbell Logic guys saying they keep two deadlift days a week, rather than alternating DL/PC (I could be misremembering). Since your PC is about 50% of your DL, I wouldn't expect it to contribute much to improving your DL. Given that, I'd DL twice a week rather than alternate w/ PC.

Re chins: I don't see why you couldn't add them a couple of times a week (say at the end of M/F workouts), or on one or two off days. In my experience, they don't really interfere significantly with the other lifts as long as you don't overdo them. I like the BBM suggestion of a density block (6-7mins of submaximal sets to start), with the goal being to accumulate total work over time (both in reps completed and length of density block).

[Jeff Illingworth]

You recommend I keep alternating DL and PC in an A-B format, add chins to the PC day, which ends up having me DL, PC, and chin, each three times every two weeks?

I'm asking about the DL, not because I want to add volume, but rather I think the logical step would be to titrate frequency down at the least effective increment. For instance, if I can't recover from DL 3x a week, shouldn't I drop it to 2x a week first? Then 1x? This would allow the rate of progress to be greater for a period.

I may not be understanding your question exactly. Here's kind of a long answer to what I think you're asking. Make as few changes as possible to anything programming wise so it's easier to keep track of what is and isn't working. I think it's best to keep alternating deads and cleans. If you want to add chins, I would add them on the day you do cleans as they are the less intensive of the two lifts. By alternating deads and cleans, you go from three deadlift days "per week" to two "per week". But it's probably better to not think of things in "week" units, but rather as blocks that alternate every other training session. At some point, this will be more dead lifting than you can do while successfully adding weight - at that point, you'll be doing some sort of intermediate programming where you will dead lift heavy one day "per week", deadlift/pull a little lighter one day "per week", and cleaning on the third day. In other words, you'll have a three block cycle now instead of two.

[Rodolfo Bryant]

Why are you thinking in terms of weeks? You're a novice (though a late novice, most likely), and you should be thinking about how long it takes you to recover for the next heavy day, not how much you can recover in a week. If you can recover fully on Saturday and Sunday to pull a new PR on Monday, then so be it. But the question is how long it takes you to recover for your next heavy day, not how much volume you can fit in a week.

I find it easier to talk about that way.

I understand the SRA cycle, as well as what makes a novice a novice. This conversation is about that very thing.

Let me rephrase it: since I can no longer recover from DL's in 48 hours, I've adjusted my programming per the books (DL every other workout). Wouldn't it make more sense to DL every 72-96 hours, as opposed to every 96-120 (per the book)?

[Rodolfo Bryant]

I seem to recall the Barbell Logic guys saying they keep two deadlift days a week, rather than alternating DL/PC (I could be misremembering). Since your PC is about 50% of your DL, I wouldn't expect it to contribute much to improving your DL. Given that, I'd DL twice a week rather than alternate w/ PC.

That's what I'm asking, should I DL twice a week, or every other workout?

Also, I just started PCing, and am making 10 pound jumps, so I hope to increase that percentage.

Re chins: I don't see why you couldn't add them a couple of times a week (say at the end of M/F workouts), or on one or two off days. In my experience, they don't really interfere significantly with the other lifts as long as you don't overdo them. I like the BBM suggestion of a density block (6-7mins of submaximal sets to start), with the goal being to accumulate total work over time (both in reps completed and length of density block).

I might throw them in those days. If I do as Jeff suggests (every other workout, on PC days), I'm afraid the frequency may be too low to cause sufficient stress.

[Rodolfo Bryant]

I may not be understanding your question exactly. Here's kind of a long answer to what I think you're asking. Make as few changes as possible to anything programming wise so it's easier to keep track of what is and isn't working.

That's why I said, "I don't want to make too many programming changes at once. "

I think it's best to keep alternating deads and cleans. If you want to add chins, I would add them on the day you do cleans as they are the less intensive of the two lifts.

That's my thought as well, but if I continue to alternate my pulls and only chin on PC days, I'll be chinning only once per week some weeks (120 hours between chin sessions for those who can't talk about novice programming in terms of weeks). I'm thinking this might pose a frequency issue (ie not enough).

By alternating deads and cleans, you go from three deadlift days "per week" to two "per week". But it's probably better to not think of things in "week" units, but rather as blocks that alternate every other training session. At some point, this will be more dead lifting than you can do while successfully adding weight - at that point, you'll be doing some sort of intermediate programming where you will dead lift heavy one day "per week", deadlift/pull a little lighter one day "per week", and cleaning on the third day. In other words, you'll have a three block cycle now instead of two.

Well alternating pulls has me DLing twice one week, and one the next. DLing twice a week keeps the recovery time between sessions greater than DLing every session, but less than if I we're to alternate pulls (faster progression).

And damnit, I am thinking of my training on a workout-to-workout basis at this point. I'm just talking about it using the week metric when appropriate.

[Jeff Illingworth]

Please, don't think I'm picking on you or anything. I just wasn't sure if I was understanding what you were asking so I was being extra wordy.

So, I'm looking at chins as an accessory exercise that's being used to get a little more pull-like work in during each training week/cycle and, as such, doing them on the clean day is fine. If you want to actively build your chins (more like a primary exercise) than do them more frequently - but there's likely to be a trade-off which will impact your pulls. That's really up to you.

If you want to deadlift twice a week and clean once a week, that's fine, but you might burn out on deads faster than if you do a straight A/B alternating deal. Doing the alternating also gives your clean a little more exposure so it can come along faster and act as a "bigger" lift.