Why is the second/third set so much easier

[Adam Skillin]

In post #8 I was responding to a post by Eric who said "You don't want too much volume in the warm-up." Which I assumed meant a taper. If I'm wrong in my assumption, then we'll let Eric clarify what he meant.

However, you were replying to a different reply, which I also made to Eric, which had to do with volume. You additionally said "sabotaging" and "excessive" as if that's what I'm advocating. I think I clarified what I meant pretty well in my previous post. If you don't agree with it, I'm all ears.

Hmm. Maybe we're interpreting the concept of "too much" volume during the warm-up differently. The point of the warm-up, in my eyes, and in the opinions of just about every strength coach I'm aware of, isn't to contribute to the volume of the work performed in a given exercise. The point of the warm-up is to prepare the lifter to do the prescribed work, and that's where volume, intensity, and certain other relevant factors can be productively manipulated. So maybe we agree. Maybe we don't. I'm certainly not interested in having an internet fight about it.

[BBB]

Hmm. Maybe we're interpreting the concept of "too much" volume during the warm-up differently. The point of the warm-up, in my eyes, and in the opinions of just about every strength coach I'm aware of, isn't to contribute to the volume of the work performed in a given exercise. The point of the warm-up is to prepare the lifter to do the prescribed work, and that's where volume, intensity, and certain other relevant factors can be productively manipulated. So maybe we agree. Maybe we don't. I'm certainly not interested in having an internet fight about it.

I polled all the same strength coaches and additional ones around the world and they are all of the opinion that we probably do agree. Or maybe we don't

Just kidding...

Going back to the OP, the fact that his second/third set felt easier may be an indication that he wasn't prepared for the prescribed work and ipso facto, his first set was the warm-up to the following sets. I gave an exact recipe of how the OP could/should warm-up; if we both agree with that, then I think we can agree and leave this beat horse.

[Eric Schexnayder]

I think we can agree and leave this beat horse.

I’m on vacation right now, so this may be the still ongoing 48 hours of continuous alcohol intake talking, but I agree.

[Darkroman]

Here's what I would [and] do:
45x10, 95x5 (optional), 135x5, 185x5, 215x5, 230x5 (3-sets)

Seriously? That's not a warm-up. That's a work lighter work set. You might as well have it be 4 sets of 5 with 1st set being ~90% of sets 2, 3, and 4.

The jump from 185x2 to 230 is a bit of a big jump though. I found what has always worked for me is a single at around ~90%, so 205x1 would be the best option in this case as a final warm up set. In this case mine would look like this

45x5
95x5
135x3
185x2
205x1

[BBB]

I’m on vacation right now, so this may be the still ongoing 48 hours of continuous alcohol intake talking, but I agree.

LOL... I'm also on vaca. Cheers

Seriously? That's not a warm-up. That's a work lighter work set. You might as well have it be 4 sets of 5 with 1st set being ~90% of sets 2, 3, and 4.

The jump from 185x2 to 230 is a bit of a big jump though. I found what has always worked for me is a single at around ~90%, so 205x1 would be the best option in this case as a final warm up set. In this case mine would look like this

45x5
95x5
135x3
185x2
205x1

Darkroman, sure, we can quibble about the jumps, but why just a single if you're not working up to a single or another form of testing? Why not 135x5, 185x5, 205x5?

[Satch12879]

LOL... I'm also on vaca. Cheers



Darkroman, sure, we can quibble about the jumps, but why just a single if you're not working up to a single or another form of testing? Why not 135x5, 185x5, 205x5?

Because its too much work before your actual work. The warm up is a warm up; that’s all.

[Phil Meggers]

He is on to something here, and although it may not be particularly scientific, it does have some bearing on people's training. We've seen it plenty of times with our lifters, and I've certainly seen it in myself as well. Sometimes it can be the difference between the first rep of a set and the rest of the reps (i.e., the first rep is rough, and the rest of the reps clean up nicely), and sometimes, as you - adauria - mentioned, it can be the difference between the first set and the rest of the sets (i.e., the first set is rough, and the other sets clean up nicely).

Lifters can sometimes have a tendency to treat the first rep/set as a "getting to know you" rep/set. Perhaps you're unsure of how it's going to go, perhaps you're feeling things out a bit technique-wise, etc., but by the time the second rep/set rolls around, you're more confident/aggressive/angry - whatever the case, you've decided to "dominate the bar" (in the wise words of Dr. Sullivan), and you simply do exactly that.

At our gym, I've sometimes referred to this "getting to know you" rep/set as a "confidence" rep/set since the mere completion of it sometimes can give you the confidence to improve on the rest of the reps/sets. However, a "confidence" rep/set is not a positive thing - we need to dominate the bar from the beginning, not by the time we get to the end. Easier said than done, of course, but that is the goal nonetheless. For some perspective, it is worth noting that at a powerlifting, strengthlifting, or weightlifting meet, you only get that first rep each time you're up. Try to keep that in mind the next time you step up to the bar, and tell yourself to "dominate the bar."

I thought your warm-ups were chosen pretty well, but I would also recommend that you follow Adam Skillin and Darkroman's advice about hitting a single at about 205. For what it's worth, below is the warm-up we generally recommend at Testify:

Bar x 5 x 2 (usually 45 lbs but perhaps a lighter bar if appropriate), more empty bar sets if needed to get warm
40% x 5
60% x 3
80% x 2
90% x 1

Then the work sets. Around the low-mid 300s, this needs some modifications, but it works pretty well until then, and by the time a lifter makes it to the low-mid 300s, he will probably have a good idea of how modify it or will know someone worth asking. Full disclosure - we stole this from Beau at Westminster Strength & Conditioning - an excellent SS Gym (I think we modified it a bit - perhaps it was the addition of the 90% single, but I don't remember).

At any rate, and if I recall correctly, the warm-up above would give you pretty much what you did with the addition of the 205 single.

Happy training.

[SteveL]

He is on to something here, and although it may not be particularly scientific, it does have some bearing on people's training. We've seen it plenty of times with our lifters, and I've certainly seen it in myself as well. Sometimes it can be the difference between the first rep of a set and the rest of the reps (i.e., the first rep is rough, and the rest of the reps clean up nicely), and sometimes, as you - adauria - mentioned, it can be the difference between the first set and the rest of the sets (i.e., the first set is rough, and the other sets clean up nicely).

Lifters can sometimes have a tendency to treat the first rep/set as a "getting to know you" rep/set. Perhaps you're unsure of how it's going to go, perhaps you're feeling things out a bit technique-wise, etc., but by the time the second rep/set rolls around, you're more confident/aggressive/angry - whatever the case, you've decided to "dominate the bar" (in the wise words of Dr. Sullivan), and you simply do exactly that.

At our gym, I've sometimes referred to this "getting to know you" rep/set as a "confidence" rep/set since the mere completion of it sometimes can give you the confidence to improve on the rest of the reps/sets. However, a "confidence" rep/set is not a positive thing - we need to dominate the bar from the beginning, not by the time we get to the end. Easier said than done, of course, but that is the goal nonetheless. For some perspective, it is worth noting that at a powerlifting, strengthlifting, or weightlifting meet, you only get that first rep each time you're up. Try to keep that in mind the next time you step up to the bar, and tell yourself to "dominate the bar."

I thought your warm-ups were chosen pretty well, but I would also recommend that you follow Adam Skillin and Darkroman's advice about hitting a single at about 205. For what it's worth, below is the warm-up we generally recommend at Testify:

Bar x 5 x 2 (usually 45 lbs but perhaps a lighter bar if appropriate), more empty bar sets if needed to get warm
40% x 5
60% x 3
80% x 2
90% x 1

Then the work sets. Around the low-mid 300s, this needs some modifications, but it works pretty well until then, and by the time a lifter makes it to the low-mid 300s, he will probably have a good idea of how modify it or will know someone worth asking. Full disclosure - we stole this from Beau at Westminster Strength & Conditioning - an excellent SS Gym (I think we modified it a bit - perhaps it was the addition of the 90% single, but I don't remember).

At any rate, and if I recall correctly, the warm-up above would give you pretty much what you did with the addition of the 205 single.

Happy training.

Thanks for this. Could you comment on warmups once the weight get into the mid 300s for squats and dead lifts? What kind of % are you look at there or is it very individualized at that point?

[Michael Wolf]

...

This is a good follow-up post, and for clarity I'd highlight the following two points:

For what it's worth, below is the warm-up we generally recommend at Testify:

Bar x 5 x 2 (usually 45 lbs but perhaps a lighter bar if appropriate), more empty bar sets if needed to get warm
40% x 5
60% x 3
80% x 2
90% x 1

Then the work sets.

I find that:
Bar x5-10 x2
40% x5
65% x4
85% x2

works really well for beginners and takes less time than having to add the single, with 85% being close enough so the jump isn't too big.

BUT THIS ONLY WORKS if your work set weight is sufficiently higher than the empty bar. I clearly remember this one time I had a novice older guy use percentages without applying common sense to his press warm-up, for work-sets of 70x5x3.

He did the empty bar for a set of five, then went and got a technique bar and did 27.5x5 for his first weighted warm-up, then back to the empty bar for 4, then 60x2. This is obviously not the right way to do it. I had already explained the concept to him several times, but some people just need to screw it up a bunch before they understand that the percentages are a guideline, not a prescription.

What he should have done was start with a common-sense light weight of 15-25 lbs, then just use relatively even jumps, so something like:
25x5, 40x5, 50x3-4, 60x2, then 70x5x3. But he used the percentages without applying any common sense which doesn't work.

Around the low-mid 300s, this needs some modifications, but it works pretty well until then, and by the time a lifter makes it to the low-mid 300s, he will probably have a good idea of how modify it or will know someone worth asking

And then this. At some point, another warm-up set is needed - that's when I add the single, and it's usually in the low 300s for squats in most men, but can be sooner, or later, depending on the individual. And depending on the lift as well - obviously sooner for presses.

And once you get past that point, you start to have a pretty good idea of your own individual response to warm-ups and how it affects your training, and THEN you'll have enough experience to know whether you do better with more warm-ups and smaller jumps, less warm-ups and bigger jumps, or something in between.

I found personally when I started experimenting that I do better with more warm-ups and smaller jumps, especially close to the work set. Whenever I train with Reynolds, I'm amazed at how well he does on big jumps and few warm-up reps. If we were both warming up to a 275 press, I'd do:
45x10x2, 105x8, 145x5, 185x3, 215x2, 235x2, 255x1

and he'd probably do something like:
45x5, 95x5, 135x3, 185x2, 225x1, 255x1

and we'd both be right, because we've learned the individual way our bodies respond to warm-ups. Like training programs themselves, there are individual differences within broad generalities, that don't become apparent till you've got some experience against which to compare different approaches, but that become more important to individualize the more advanced you are.

The conceptual point of the warm-up is to fully prepare you for the sets which counts as "stress," without any fatiguing or tiring out before you get there. Any list of sets, reps, %s, etc...is only trying to approximate that concept in an easy to follow manner, but if you confuse the list for the concept, you'll never really understand how to warm up.

[Eric Schexnayder]

So Monday I took Adam's advice and threw in a heavy single just before my squat work sets, and I also took about a 3 minute break before starting. First set felt much more manageable than it has in the past. And the second set felt manageable just like it always has. Third set was a little rough on the last two reps, but I'd think that'd be expected.

Just sharing my experience with trying these two things in conjunction.