grease the groove @ rip-snopes.com

[osv2]

Anyways, on topic, I think GTG is really only useful for people struggling at a particular movement. As Wayne said, people who can only do 1-2 pullups may benefit.

Anecdote: one of our coaches did GTG with pullups for a few weeks. He started with a substantial amount of strict pullups (20ish). He did 100 pullups a day, 5 every 30 minutes or something throughout the day. His pullups increased by maybe 1 or 2 reps. I don't think he'll be greasing the groove on anything else anytime soon.

Do we talk strength or endurance? 20-reps move is more about endurance, no? Even then, 5-10% increase in a few weeks is not that bad for advanced trainee.

[Bill Been]

might be useful for gymnastics, parcours or similar skill sets, but for strength-STRENGTH, think i shall stick with the good reverend rip and his church of black iron

If you're talking about Pavel, you might consider that "Power to The People"; "Beyond Bodybuilding"; and "Easy Strength" are all about barbells and strength. "Beyond Bodybuilding" is particularly interesting for its clandestine approach to talking bodybuilders into finding something more useful to do. "Power to The People" is a highly reductionist barbell program based on deadlifts and side presses with a barbell. "Easy Strength" is an attempt to make coaching different qualities for different sorts of sports, and its the source of the semi-famous 40-Day Easy Strength Workout, which was actually Pavel's program that Dan John now gets credit for for some reason.

All that to say: you can poo-poo kettlebells all you want but Pavel is a strength guy and is no stranger to barbells. He has 500+ pound pulls to his credit, and has coached his old man who's pushing 80 years old to high 300s pulls in meets. He has a permanently effed up elbow and can still press the 48 kilo Beast with either hand, which is about 2/3 bodyweight for him. So you might want to try having a clue about Pavel before writing him off as a bodyweight maven fit only for gymnastics, parcours, or similar skills sets.

[hamburgerfan]

I haven't gotten much out of his other books, but in defense of Pavel, his oddly named "Power to the people professional" book is a fantastic resource for anyone looking to get into powerlifting specific training. Also contains a chapter about technique and programming for the olympic style press for people who are interested in that.

[mike]

So you might want to try having a clue about Pavel before writing him off as a bodyweight maven fit only for gymnastics, parcours, or similar skills sets.

thanks bill, was actually asking rip about grease the groove - not strength per se...my reply to meshuggah fuzzed up clarity on that - and still plan on sticking with this program - especially given the endless stream of golden nuggets like the Starting Strength Coach Association Series: Exercise Science Presentation 2014

as soon as time permits, will check out pavel/your book suggestions a look - always up for learning

thanks

[Kyle Schuant]

I can't speak of the exact physiological mechanisms at play, but I can offer some experience.

I have had people do the "easy strength" approach, or my version of it (since the book was a muddled mess). I have never had novices do it, since I believe they can add weight to the bar every time for 12 weeks or so even with a lot of other dramas going on in their lives, but only people for whom something like Texas Method might otherwise be appropriate.

They get their maxes in 3-6 lifts, figure out 60-80% of them, and do a total of 10 reps in them split up however they like, with 60% as the floor and 80% as the ceiling, but each time they choose what to lift. They do this 5-7 days a week. This is "greasing the groove" but with barbells.

After six weeks they retest their maxes, typically 1-2 lifts have gone up 10% or so, 1-2 5%, and 1-2 not at all. Why the difference? Well, everyone has favourite and hated lifts, ones where they'll push themselves and where they'll avoid it. Looking back at the logs, we usually find that the ones that went up a lot the person was doing closer to 80% most of the time, the ones that didn't go up were closer to 60%.

And when I look at the logs of people doing things like Texas Method, we see that strength increases more quickly than with Easy Strength. But the 80+% lifts, aka intensity day, the person only does for one set once a week.

From which we can conclude that for intermediates, regularly lifting at about 60% of max will maintain but not improve strength, and 80% will improve it. Anywhere in that range you can lift daily without driving yourself into the ground. And lifting at 80+% will improve strength more quickly, but it's hard and tiring. In other words: frequency and intensity both work, it's just that intensity works more quickly and takes more out of you.

[jlauerman]

Thanks, Bill, for the balanced perspective.

Jim

[Bill Been]

Just to be clear: I wasn't advocating Pavel's book(s) or the 40-Day Program. Pavel has a very direct way of writing and doesn't suffer Bosu ball foolishness any more gladly than Rip does. And in a world without "Starting Strength Basic Barbell Training", Pavel's "Power to The a People" would save a crapload of teenagers a crapload of wasted gym time. But the deprivation-derived minimalism that runs through some stuff is a hangover of Commie-Think at the basest level. Learn many volume manipulating programs to get stronger with a single kettlebell because in the filthy Commie system, barbells are only available to athletes in the State program. Same thinking for body weight stuff. "Easy Strength" is an unreadable mess, as Kyle points out, and Kyle is also one of precious few coaches who've had any success at all with the 40-Day program.

[Tony1214]

Yes!!!! Well said Bill!