Progressing on volume day, regressing on intensity?

[Notorious]

For the last 2 weeks' intensity days, my press was stuck at 130x4. On the volume days of those weeks I pressed 120 and 122.5 for 5x5, respectively. So this week, I decided to add a set, as I believe it says to do in PP. I got 125x6x5 relatively easily, and felt as though I could get 1-2 more reps in all of the sets. Then comes the intensity day, and I could only manage a meager 130x1. I tried again in 5 minutes, and I only got 1 rep, yet again. I suppose I fucked up by adding a set on the volume day.

For the record, I am not benching at all due to a shoulder problem that comes back every time my bench gets heavy. So to me, more volume for the press made sense since the total tonnage is so much less. This is what my routine looks like:

Tuesday (Volume)
Squats 5x5
Press 5x5
Chin-Ups (varies, trying to figure out what works best)

Thursday (Recovery)
Pause Squats 2x5
Press 2x5 (75% of Tuesday)
Curls 5x5

Saturday (Intensity)
Squat 1x5
Press 1x5
Power Cleans (varies)
Deadlift 1x5
Chin-Ups (varies)
Grip

I also occasionally do Power Cleans on Wednesdays, if I have time. This particular week I did not, and my volume on chins was also super low. So what should I do? Reduce volume on Tuesday? BTW I do not actually own PP but have read parts of it, and I decided to place an order for it today.

[stronger]

Practical Programming suggests that an added set or an alternate rep scheme, for example 8 sets of 3 are good for fixing a stall on the intensity day.

However, I think your press is getting way too much work. The press utilizes a smaller amount of muscle, so it's not going to improve as fast, and there is a reason why the press and bench are alternated in the Texas Method.

I think if you can't bench, but feel the need to press on recovery day, the load should be significantly lower than even 75%.

opinions of others are appreciated on my assessment, I'm no expert.

[hatmanii]

Can you DB bench at all? Can you incline bench? I'd sub a different exercise on the recovery day like DB bench/press or incline bench.

In addition to the possible volume issue, it may be a bit mental as well. If you are getting 125x6x5 your 1-5rm should be MUCH higher.

[milesdyson]

i agree with both previous posts. i would sub something else for the recovery day. you say bench hurts you at heavy weights, but what about 70% or so of your 1rm for a couple sets of 5? and since you've now actually regressed, i would try a reduced workload on tuesday. try 4x5.

it really is strange that you managed that tuesday workout but couldn't get more than 130x1. must have been very fatigued.

[isis]

Sounds like the reason you aren't making progress on intensity day is that you are not recovered from the work done earlier in the week. Assuming sleeping and eating are under control, the next thing to try would be less volume on Tuesday...maybe 4x5 or 5x4...see if that lets you make progress on both workouts.

5x5 curls is a lot of sets at a high intensity for an assistance exercise, and the curls could be fatiguing muscles that play a stabilizing role in the press. Cutting back your workload on those might also help.

[Force Production]

If technique and recovery are good, then it's probably a workload issue. Do you feel like you are failing because your arms/shoulders can't press the weight or because the rest of the body can't stabilize itself as you're pressing? If it's the latter, it could be the heavy squats that are stopping you from having the rest of the body tight. You may want to rest longer between squats and presses, and between each warm up set for the press.



You don't have to go for a 5 RM every week, you could do a 1 RM, 2 RM or 3 RM, possibly followed by assistance work or back-off sets. You can press with each rep starting from a dead stop (or with the stretch reflex if you're already dead pressing.) Or, why don't you do push presses on Mondays and/or Fridays?



Make sure you have a successful press day on the next Fridays for a while to break the (mental) failure.

[Baker]

maybe the frequency is too much?
or
maybe you respond better to volume sessions?

there's a lot of possible scenarios...

[Notorious]

I think if you can't bench, but feel the need to press on recovery day, the load should be significantly lower than even 75%.

What I don't understand is this: How can people progress doing Push Press/Press/Push Press or Bench Press/Press/Bench Press when the "recovery" day is actually a heavy press workout, and I can't even progress doing basically two warm-up sets of the press on recovery day? Not knocking your advise, just curious. And do you think switching to 3x3 at 75% would be sufficient, or should I just drop to <75%?

Can you DB bench at all? Can you incline bench? I'd sub a different exercise on the recovery day like DB bench/press or incline bench.

I can do all forms of benching as long as it is light, but DB benching doesn't seem any better when the weight gets heavy. I was also considering doing DB presses on recovery day, but wouldn't those just tax me more than light presses?

5x5 curls is a lot of sets at a high intensity for an assistance exercise, and the curls could be fatiguing muscles that play a stabilizing role in the press. Cutting back your workload on those might also help.

Hmm, I actually have been doing curls because I feel like biceps are important for the press, but I suppose they could be negatively affecting me. I used to do 3x5, but added the volume because it didn't seem enough to allow me to progress linearly. If reducing volume on Tuesday doesn't work, this is going to be the next thing I change.

You don't have to go for a 5 RM every week, you could do a 1 RM, 2 RM or 3 RM, possibly followed by assistance work or back-off sets. You can press with each rep starting from a dead stop (or with the stretch reflex if you're already dead pressing.) Or, why don't you do push presses on Mondays and/or Fridays?

Yeah, I was going to start messing with singles and triples once the weight got heavier, but it didn't seem necessary at this point. And once pressing 3x a week stops working completely, I'll probably change a couple of the workouts to push press.

So over all I'm hearing a) lower volume on Tuesday and b) either lower intensity on Thursday or do some light form of benching. Another question: does changing the exercise on Thursday have any positive effect on recovery, or is the workload all that matters?

[Force Production]

What I don't understand is this: How can people progress doing Push Press/Press/Push Press or Bench Press/Press/Bench Press when the "recovery" day is actually a heavy press workout, and I can't even progress doing basically two warm-up sets of the press on recovery day? Not knocking your advise, just curious. And do you think switching to 3x3 at 75% would be sufficient, or should I just drop to <75%?

2x5 at an intesity of 75% of the volume day doesn't seem that much...it's about 30% total volume (maybe not the right word...?) of what you pressed on the volume day (more opinions on whether this is light enough or not would be nice, but it seems fine to me.)

Hmm, I actually have been doing curls because I feel like biceps are important for the press, but I suppose they could be negatively affecting me. I used to do 3x5, but added the volume because it didn't seem enough to allow me to progress linearly. If reducing volume on Tuesday doesn't work, this is going to be the next thing I change.

If the main goal of the curls is to improve your press you could remove them completely. The chins are doing a good enough job already. I'd delete these before lowering Tuesdays volume (but do go back to 5x5 instead of continuing with 6x5.)

If you delete the (useless ) curls, you could move the chins to the recovery day and do something more taxing on the volume day (the power cleans, maybe?) or whatever you need to work on.

[Notorious]

If the main goal of the curls is to improve your press you could remove them completely. The chins are doing a good enough job already. I'd delete these before lowering Tuesdays volume (but do go back to 5x5 instead of continuing with 6x5.)

If you delete the (useless ) curls, you could move the chins to the recovery day and do something more taxing on the volume day (the power cleans, maybe?) or whatever you need to work on.

Well, that's not the only reason I do them, the other two reasons being to keep my elbows healthy (tendinitis seems to flare up at random times) and to get these twigs I call arms bigger. For some reason I find it very difficult to progress on chins, but my curls are increasing just fine.

If I did chins on recovery day, aren't those equally/more taxing than curls?