so when is accessory work needed?

[hithebeach]

I know there are TONS of variables and TONS of solutions, but i wanna hear what others think. SS covers on what to do, how to do, how to program them, but nothing about preference.

What I mean is, when a stuck bench is occurring, what should one do?
Reset? Add back-off sets? Add dips? close grip benches? rack lockouts?

How do I know what to add?

And if recovery is present(gaining weight and sleeping well), and i'm not making huge jumps in weight from workout to workout, and my squats start to slow down(bar speed) and each workout is a grinder, what should be done first? reduce weight increased each worokut? add ab work? add back extensions? add back-off sets?


I can understand that a training session can be determined by mood and weather, but assuming these are ok, how should I know what to choose?


or perhaps a novince, who is still in his novice stages should just push him self through the program and try to squeeze more poundages and then move to intermediate programming, but then again, then why Rip recommends accessory work? could someone please explain that to me?

[PVC]

Back off sets are for practicing form.

When your bench press gets stuck, Rip recommends adding chinups/pullups first. Dips will probably help, but you'll hear mixed opinions on this from members of these forums (I asked a while ago). Close grip benches and rack lockouts aren't necessary for novices.

For your squat question, it depends on the situation. Assuming that nutrition and sleep are accounted for as you said, if you're making 10 lb jumps and your squats are getting exceedingly difficult, you switch to making 5 lb jumps. If you're making 5 lb jumps and your squats are getting exceedingly difficult, you switch to the advanced novice program, which has you squatting heavy twice per week with a light squat day programmed in the middle of the week (still increasing by 5 lbs on the heavy squat days).

If you think your abdominals are weak and are causing your lifts to stall, then adding heavy ab work would be beneficial.

I had typed up an answer to the rest of your question, but I realized that I didn't feel comfortable providing the information for it based on my experience level. Maybe someone who is more knowledgeable than I am can help out.

[jacob cloud]

In your example of a stuck bench, usually the solution is to increase bodyweight. Most people get stuck on bench and/or press when they aren't eating enough to gain. If that's not the case, of course a reset is standard procedure during the novice phase. I am also assuming microloading has been tried, and that form is good to very good.
If an obvious weakness becomes a pattern, you address it. Trouble locking out on bench? Weak triceps - add a couple sets of dips 1-2x/wk. Trouble off the bottom? Work the bottom portion with dead stop reps off pins. The thing is, when you get to the level where you need to worry about these things, and the answer isn't an obvious "eat more," you should be developing into a lifter that is willing to experiment, try things, and find what works for your own body and situation. This learning period is one of the best, and most important, parts of the novice program. The people who get Strong are the people who paid attention to the program, how it affected their body, and figured out what they needed to do to continue their progression. Nothing wrong with asking here for specific advice - especially if you have a video and an open mind.

In your squat example, the answer, IMO, is to keep squatting. Work through the slow, tough, miserable workouts, and keep adding weight to the bar each time. Eventually, you realize that with the right mental prep, you can do this for a LONG time. Everyone who has used linear progression to get to 400+ for work sets has suffered through a ton of agonizing sets. It's not easy.

[jacob cloud]

For your squat question, it depends on the situation. Assuming that nutrition and sleep are accounted for as you said, if you're making 10 lb jumps and your squats are getting exceedingly difficult, you switch to making 5 lb jumps. If you're making 5 lb jumps and your squats are getting exceedingly difficult, you switch to the advanced novice program, which has you squatting heavy twice per week with a light squat day programmed in the middle of the week (still increasing by 5 lbs on the heavy squat days).

Disagree with the bold part. Squats get heavy (and therefore, hard) quickly. You don't switch the program when it's "hard," you switch it when you can actually no longer continue your linear progression without switching it. This means finding your failure point. Hint: It's about twice what everyone thinks it is when things get "hard."

[PVC]

Disagree with the bold part. Squats get heavy (and therefore, hard) quickly. You don't switch the program when it's "hard," you switch it when you can actually no longer continue your linear progression without switching it. This means finding your failure point. Hint: It's about twice what everyone thinks it is when things get "hard."

I used to think this way. Then my lifts stalled, and it took me fucking forever to bring them back up after I reset them. There is a specific point where the squat gets very hard and will stall if you keep trying to progress at the same rate, and ideally one switches to smaller jumps/advanced novice exactly at this point. I agree that a lot of people tend to overestimate the difficulty of their squats and will end up switching too early, but it's better to maintain slower, consistent progress than it is to get stuck and have to reset.

[jacob cloud]

Yes, there comes a point where squatting heavy 3x/wk is just too much for most people. But I honestly can't say I ever truly exhausted linear gains, even at 415 3x5, and if I had, my squat would likely be well over 550 by now. Look at Kittensmash - the guy is dumb enough to ignore the pain and just keep on trucking, and he's knocking on the door of 450 for work sets with no end in sight.

[PVC]

Kittensmash is a pretty poor example of what can be accomplished by a typical person on linear progression. Kittensmash is a fucking freak, in the best way possible. The vast majority of people will not achieve his level of strength from simple linear progression.

For a counter-example, look at Mr. City (sorry City, I hope I don't offend you here). He had been grinding his way through SS for a full year, going through a number of resets, and his squat went from 320x5x3 to 340x5x3 in three months - certainly a much slower progression than it would have been if he'd have switched to intermediate programming. He definitely "truly exhaused" his linear gains, but why is this concept useful if it's slower than simply switching to intermediate programming?

[ColoWayno]

What about when you return to linear progression after you miss more than a few workouts? Is there any reason why we shouldn't use that opportunity to get a quick boost not just up to, but beyond where we were if we are willing to commit to the sleep/calorie/workout commitment?
I'm guessing you would have to be careful to avoid over training.
For example, I'm accepting slower gains (using 5-3-1) for a few months just because of life circumstances and will miss at least 2 weeks of workouts for a vacation later in the summer.
I plan to deload and do a few weeks of LP when I get back. If it's going well I want to see how long I can stay on it without burning out.
It seems like you wouldn't want to do this unless you already had a reason to return to LP. Otherwise using a more organized periodization scheme is probably a better idea.

[jacob cloud]

Wayno, that's actually an excellent line of thought...and is basically what I'm doing now. I was out of the gym for a couple months after 5/3/1 and am milking some linear gains before getting back into 5/3/1 and meet training. I should be able to pass all previous PR's while on linear progression, but we'll see if my body cooperates.

PVC - I think Ksmash will be the first to tell you he's not a genetic freak by any means - at least, that's the impression I got when I met him. He's just strong of mind and body and sticking to a program that works really well.

[Scott_Robison]

This is all very interesting, but could someone speak to the OP's question about when and how to add accessory work? PVC did an admirable job off the start, and jacob cloud added some more advanced ideas, but it would be nice to hear from some other experienced folks. You know, all else being equal.