Substituting bench for overhead press in SS

[gzt]

Well, okay then. I stand corrected. I'm no expert. But I'm right about the joint stuff.

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

GZT,

You are mostly right, I was just presenting a caveat. If you think you have a tear get to the dr.

[FatButWeak]

gzt may be right. I concede that. If the injury is so severe that only surgery can fix it, then only surgery can fix it. My sense, however, of the OPs injury is that it causes him pain and greatly reduced strength, not that he cannot perform the movement unloaded.

I was speaking to someone the other day (very young, smart but ignorant and very untrained) who told me they could not do any overhead pressing because of a chronic sporting induced shoulder injury. They then demonstrated to me the pressing movement they claimed they could not do! Obviously, if they can move their arms through that plane of motion (the press) they can lift a barbell. Barbell loads can be very finey tuned/scaled correct? Noone said they had to start pressing 135! They can start with a 1 pound broom stick if need be, although I think an unloaded bar is probably light enough.

The Starr rehab protocol is for muscle tears because the amount of blood that goes into those area; blood contains nutrients which then heal the tissue. That's why it works. For a non-muscle tear (is that what you mean by "joint"?) the same principle applies, only modified. Go slower and be less ambitious than one might with a muscle tear. If by "joint" you mean cartilageneuos (sp?) or ligamentous (sp?) tissue, these areas get a lot less blood flow. Therefore, you need to go slower. The same principles apply; adaptation will occur.

Thus:
1) so long as surgery is not the only way to fix the injury (and I do mean only), and;
2) the injured party can move their body unloaded through the rom in question (eg the plane of motion required for a bench press) , then:
3) using a modified (reduced load, increased time frame) Starr protocol should work.

No?

[ambivalens]

You make many interesting points, FatButWeak. I've taken them to heart, and decided not to do any changes to the program. I've also been actively practicing a better benching technique, to try to eliminate any wrong-doing I might be causing myself as a result of bad form. Yesterday I benched like usual, just making sure to .. eh .. "cock my elbows" like described in a Diesel Crew video. I noticed that this completely changed the angle by which I lift, and it seemed to not cause me much of a pain afterwards (some, but not as much as usual, I believe). The weight was not very heavy (62.5kg - 140 pounds), and seemed to go up rather well. Back before I got these problems my bench was at about 90 kg (200 or something like that).

I did deload to about 45kg and I'm slowly working my way up week by week, but using normal SS linear progression. Would you guys suggest I lighten the load and try to follow Starr's rehab 20 rep routines?

Thanks for all your tips and ideas, I'm glad to have them!

[FatButWeak]

Check out Dave tate's " how to bench" video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dh3t6T-nqP0

Tate is a smart guy and has excellent instruction. Note: his technique for the bench is not precisely the same as Rippetoes because he is making recommendations for a competition bench press, not for a bench press that is part of an overall strnegth program. Nonetless, he makes excellent points about the mechanics of the lift and safety. View with a grain of salt and in light of Rippetoe's recommendations. More knowlegde is power.

The exact parameters of your modified Starr program are up to you. As pointed out elsewhere, the Starr protocol is for muscle belly tears, not cartilage/ligament/tendon issues, so reduce loads, intesity and duration of recovery accordingly. Only you can program your recovery. Oh yeah, re-read PPST on injuries.

[hatmanii]

I've been dealing with inflammation, knotting, and strains in my supraspinatus and infrapsinatus for the past month. Squatting aggravates it, bench pressing makes it worse, but overhead pressing and direct rotator cuff work and vigorous massages to the muscles in my back are helping with it.

-Hat

[MortalWombat]

I know of a couple of guys on another forum, one of whom is a highland games/strongman competitor, who never do traditional bench presses any more because of shoulder injuries. They do lots of overhead presses and some close grip benches.