Ramping VS Sets Across.

[Dastardly]

Does anybody have much experience training with ramping sets in the style of Bill Starr?

Sets across is killing me with endless cycles of plateau's, reset's, minor injuries like straining joints or reocurring hamstring tendinitis.

This is in regards to squats in my case.

I know in intermediate programming which is based on heavy/light/medium, volume is supposedly the key factor in inducing the weekly adaptation/progression. So are the lead-in sets of submaximal weights still considered "quality" volume? Or might I be wasting energy compared to sets across?

[Smack]

In currently doing Madcow's which is based on one of Bill Starr's routines. Ramping definitely works.

Oh, and to answer your question, yes.

[Dutch]

I've done both, and must say that ramping is doing better things for my strength. currently I'm doing a routine based on some of starr's principles
40-70-80-90-100-95% of rep target max(this can be 8,5 or 3 reps). Maybe with the experience I now have I could make sets across work, coupling the right intensity to the volume which I had trouble with in the past. However what I'm currently doing works so I'll stick with that.

[rockyshaun]

I've done both, and must say that ramping is doing better things for my strength. currently I'm doing a routine based on some of starr's principles
40-70-80-90-100-95% of rep target max(this can be 8,5 or 3 reps). Maybe with the experience I now have I could make sets across work, coupling the right intensity to the volume which I had trouble with in the past. However what I'm currently doing works so I'll stick with that.

Could you clarify a bit with the % up there? How does this look?

[Dutch]

say you have to work up to 5 reps at 100 kg (100%)

this means 5*40-70-80-90-100-95 kg

the lifts follow a 8-5-3 rotation. when I do sets of 8 the last set drops because the 8's are higher volume.

The next step for me will probably to add another set of 95 % on the 3's and 5's and at this stage I will problably add one set to the 8's as well.

[DV]

I'm alot like you in that I have an extremely hard time recovering from sets across on squats when they get "heavy" (330+ ish).

I've used Starrs 5x5 several times to good effect. As you will know, there are quite a few different versions. My favourite is this one:

http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength...s/manrodt4.htm

I would recommend getting the book, though. Packed with great info.

[Dastardly]

I have strongest shall survive.

I must admit I was underwhelemed when I first got it. Compared to Starting strength it was difficult to see the information (like technique) I was expecting. But it was a different sort of book. I now understand & love it (for even more than the 70's outfits).

[62jeroen]

Have you tried going back to linear progression with the advance novice program, but with increases of 2 to 3 pounds per workout in stead of 5 on the squat? And for the presses, even going as low as 1 pound per workout (you will need 0.5 pound plates). This won't kill you as much as 5x5 across, chances are that you will fully recover within 3-4 days. With the smaller increases you require less super-compensation to be able to hit your target the next workout.
If it works, with these two "Medium" days, you will have the same progression when compared with TM. Maybe it will help you break your plateau. But take your time and a good back off of 8-10% of your current 5x5 max. Of course, eventually you will plateau again because the two days will become Heavy days when the load increases. But you will know for sure that you have milked everything out of linear progression.

[Dastardly]

Ive milked linear 3x5 for all its worth I think.

I was killing myself for months trying to add weight weekly even with a light day incorporated.

Currently I am in programming limbo. I switched to high bar because low bar kept giving me hamstring tendinitis. So I am kind of doing a linear progression on high bar squats in an effort to work up to my low bar weights.

Ive been doing it with ramping sets so far. Things are starting to get tough again in terms of progression, so will have to decide soon whether to attack it with Texas Method or Starr's ramping Heavy/light/medium.

Something I found confusing was Rips interpretation of Starr's 5x5. He makes it seem quite complicated and difficult to understand. Plus the example of the Starr Method, in the back of PP seems to use sets across.

[BrotherIron]

From personal exp sets across are better when you want hypertrophy and ramping up is better when training for strength. So it all depends on what you're trying to achieve with that movement you're performing.