New stronglifts fodder

[TheTonyT]

Correct me if Im wrong, but isnt SL 5x5 basically like a Bill Starr 5x5 ?

I was thinking of starting the SL Advanced programm, wich is basically the Advanced Pyramid type of scheme talked about in PPS-2. It states on the website that its based off Starr/Pendlay programing. I am no fucking S@C expert by any stretch of the fucking means, but the way the split seems somthing more fit for sombody intrested in the Barbell sports then just a general athletic s@c program.

[Mulgere Hircum]

"And when you eventually no longer make progress with deloads, it's time to switch to StrongLifts 3x5..."

"You should switch to 3x5 after you deload 2x on a lift. This cuts the training volume by almost half and
thus improves recovery. Training will feel lighter for a while, and you'll be able to add weight to the bar for
a few more weeks. Do not start with 3x5 immediately as the 2 extra sets of SL 5x5 allow you to practice
technique more."

"Eventually you'll also no longer make progress with StrongLifts 3x5. You will here too start
stalling and deloading, making little progress. Solution: switch from [[sic--he means to]] 1x5
after 2 deloads to plummet the volume and increase your recovery."

"After another 2 deloads on your Squat with StrongLifts 1x5 it's time to switch to StrongLifts
Intermediate."

"Realize also that on StrongLifts 5x5 the weight increases every single workout. With SL
Intermediate it increases once a week and with SL Advanced it increases monthly."

Interesting that his definition of "intermediate" and "advanced" programming is basically that of PP.

[Mulgere Hircum]

OK, this I don't understand.

"So for faster strength and muscle gains, it makes more sense to start with Barbell Rows, use them to build a solid foundation of strength and technique, and keep the Power Cleans for later. That is if you actually have access to bumper plates and a platform, things I do not have in my home gym. This is why my quads were full of bruises from trying to catch a heavy bar after each clean so I wouldn't break my bar by dropping it on the concrete."

As much money as this guy claims to make as an internet trainer, and he can't afford bumper plates? I mean--seriously?

[Bloodninja666]

^I also seriously doubt the man is able to power clean enough weight to leave bruises when catching the bar on his quads...

[Kyle Schuant]

If [...] you're eager to discover why the majority of guys in the
gym never get the body and strength they really want, then this 5x5 report is must-reading.

We don't need Mehdi's writing for that.

Most people in gyms do not get the results they want from progressive resistance training because they are not actually undertaking progressive resistance training. And their exercise technique is awful.

They don't progress the resistance. They change exercises every 2-4 weeks, or even every session. If I do a squat of 60kg 2x10 today and a leg press of 100kg 3x8 tomorrow, did I do more, was I progressing the resistance? Who knows. But if I squat 60kg 2x10 and 65kg 2x10 or 60kg 2x11 or 60kg 3x10 tomorrow, or even leg press 100kg 3x8 today and 110kg 3x8 or 100kg 3x9 or 100kg 4x8 tomorrow, well I have definitely progressed the resistance. If I keep that up, my body will adapt.

Those who stick to the same exercises also do not progress the resistance. If your gym offers programme cards and a counter for them to sit on, take a look one day. You'll see the same weight, reps and sets across the whole card. If you look at their older cards (commonly stapled behind the new one) you'll see a different bunch of exercises, but with the same weight, reps and sets all the way through.

Most people in gyms are not engaged in progressive resistance training.

As well, even if they do progress the resistance, their exercise technique is awful. As they add plates to the bar, the squat becomes a half squat, then a quarter squat; the bench press becomes a lockout exercise; the curl becomes a back hyperextension. Thus, any benefit they would have gained from increasing the resistance or reps is lost by their degradation in technique.

As the gym instructor, I can tell them how to do it properly. But the vast majority nod and go along with it, then as soon as I walk away go back to their shitful technique.

It's not the sets and reps or even exercise selection that ruins most people's progressive resistance training. It's the fact that they are not engaged in progressive resistance training. They're just "working out."

Starting Strength as a routine is undoubtedly a superior one. However, what's most important is to progress the resistance. Pick any series of exercises and stick to them, any sets and reps scheme, and in each session or at least each week do more weight, more reps or more sets, and you will get some good results. Even if the person simply stood with feet hip width apart over a 1kg dumbbell, squatted down and picked it up with one hand, cleaned it to their shoulder and pressed it overhead, then the same for the other arm, then in their next session did it twice, and so on up to 1x5, then went to a 2kg dumbbell and back to 1x1, and after this single exercise walked out of the gym - well, doing this a few times a week would lead to greater gains in overall strength, balance and muscle growth than most gym-goers achieve.

Most people in gyms are not engaged in progressive resistance training. Consistent effort over time gets results. They usually lack effort, and their efforts are inconsistent. Reps and sets and exercise selection is much less important than consistent effort over time.

[Mulgere Hircum]

Most people in gyms do not get the results they want from progressive resistance training because they are not actually undertaking progressive resistance training.

They don't progress the resistance.

Those who stick to the same exercises also do not progress the resistance.

Most people in gyms are not engaged in progressive resistance training.

It's not the sets and reps or even exercise selection that ruins most people's progressive resistance training. It's the fact that they are not engaged in progressive resistance training.

...what's most important is to progress the resistance.

Most people in gyms are not engaged in progressive resistance training.

Just what point are you trying to make here? Don't be shy--just come out and say it. :-)

Along those lines, given the discussion on this board I was expecting a much worse program. But whether it used to be or not, the one in that article manages to correct itself. When you work up to enough weight that five sets overtrains you (that is, you get up to a useful weight), and you stall because you're doing too much for a novice, lo and behold the program switches to one that is appropriate--Starting Strength. When you stall on that, you switch to this single set business, which doesn't strike me as likely to be much use (if 3x5 is no longer stimulating adaptation, why would one set?--it's most likely to simply let yourself recover and display the strength you already acquired earlier, not to build anything), but it doesn't matter because when it inevitably fails you switch to something "intermediate." I don't know what his intermediate program is, but I almost wonder if it ends up being Texas Method at some point, or maybe the Starr method. Be funny if it was. :-)

So it wastes your time training on a physiologically poor approach, but hey--at least it doesn't keep you stalled there forever.

It's funny about all the people here who say they started doing 5x5 and switched to SS. Apparently Mehdi agrees that's such a good idea he writes it into the program. :-)

[mstrofbass]

I have a feeling 2x5 than 3x5 would work pretty well if not better for strength, provided you wanted to keep weight gain down. 5x5 would be even better for hypertrophy but not as good for strength gains.

I still don't understand this, and I mentioned it in the Stronglifts thread...everywhere I have read anything about training for hypertrophy, it recommends HIGH REPS, not HIGH VOLUME. Can someone explain to me where this increased volume stuff is coming from?

[LudwigVan]

A big philosophical difference between SS and SL is that Mehdi tells everyone to start with the empty bar and perform 5 worksets, viewing those early sessions with light weight and a lot of volume as "form practice." Meanwhile Rip wants you to start with a weight that's actually challenging and only perform enough volume to make progress, having learned the form from the book and practiced it during your warmup sets. I think this is understandable in light of Rip's overall philosophical outlook, in which he places a high value on individual responsibility, efficiency, and self-starterism. Rip's approach will lead to more immediate results and greater gains achieved before a stall, but he also demands more intelligence and ability from his audience. In practice I think there's merit in both philosophies. But I think Mehdi is kind of a huckster and badly needs an editor.

[mstrofbass]

A big philosophical difference between SS and SL is that Mehdi tells everyone to start with the empty bar and perform 5 worksets, viewing those early sessions with light weight and a lot of volume as "form practice." Meanwhile Rip wants you to start with a weight that's actually challenging and only perform enough volume to make progress, having learned the form from the book and practiced it during your warmup sets. I think this is understandable in light of Rip's overall philosophical outlook, in which he places a high value on individual responsibility, efficiency, and self-starterism. Rip's approach will lead to more immediate results and greater gains achieved before a stall, but he also demands more intelligence and ability from his audience. In practice I think there's merit in both philosophies. But I think Mehdi is kind of a huckster and badly needs an editor.

I think Mehdi's philosophy is retarded. Once you get the basic form down, your form is going to be fine until you start hitting weight that's actually hard...where Rip has you start after you get the basic form down. The in between time is going to be mostly wasted. Even though you may find a better "groove" earlier, your form isn't going to be significantly better once you hit heavy weight.

[LudwigVan]

Yeah, I mean I don't think it makes a lot of sense either, but I started that way and I turned out okay.