Advice for reset on 531

[Tom Narvaez]

Official according to who?

The purpose of the Reset or Recycle is to allow recovery to take place. Thus, the Reset or Recycle needs to be something light and easy.

Most often, dropping 10% isn't going to accomplish the goal, recovery.

To effectively do that a 20-30% drop works well.

Kenny Croxdale

According to the guy who wrote the damn book. 531 is a popular ebook written by Jim Wendler. Sorry to be rude, but you clearly don't know the actual program or you'd realize that resetting to 90% of the training max falls exactly in the range you're talking about.

Week 1 of a new 531 training cycle is 5+ reps at 85% of your training max. If the training max is reset to 90%, we just do some basic math, .85 * .9 = .765, and we can see that Week 1 is quite light. If we used the protocol you just mentioned, .85 * .7 = .595, we're going to have the trainee repping out a weight that he can probably do 20 times. This is useless and unproductive in the context of the program we're talking about.

[Kenny Croxdale]

According to the guy who wrote the damn book. 531 is a popular ebook written by Jim Wendler. Sorry to be rude, but you clearly don't know the actual program or you'd realize that resetting to 90% of the training max falls exactly in the range you're talking about.

Week 1 of a new 531 training cycle is 5+ reps at 85% of your training max. If the training max is reset to 90%, we just do some basic math, .85 * .9 = .765, and we can see that Week 1 is quite light. If we used the protocol you just mentioned, .85 * .7 = .595, we're going to have the trainee repping out a weight that he can probably do 20 times. This is useless and unproductive in the context of the program we're talking about.

Not In The Range

I appreciate the math break down. However, that is not what I am talking about.

300 lb 1Repetition Max Bench Press Example

300 lbs X 80% = 240 lbs

So, what I am talking about is after you all out max to the limit week, dropping the Restart Cycle back 20% or more.

Recovery

The purpose of the Restart of a new cycle in dropping the load it to allow for recover. Recovery is where compensation occurs.

Milage May Vary

To paraphrase the tire commercial, "Training Restart Percentage may vary".

Chip McCain

McCain pulled a 799 lb deadlift at 198 lbs back in 1979 for a World Record.

In discussing McCain's deadlift training program with him, I was crunching numbers on his training percentages.

Back then I believed the road to success was based on math, training percentages.

Heavy Deadlift Weeks

McCain's deadlift program alternated heavy and light weeks.

McCain would jump his heavy training deadlift session 50 lb every other week.

While jumping 50 lbs every other week wasn't a rhythmic training percentage but it was a firm number.

Light Deadlift Weeks

As a math guy, here's where McCain gave me a headache. I also learned something about great athletes.

In going over McCain's Light Deadlift Weeks, his training precentages and weight was all over the road.

McCain's Training Philospohy

McCain used training percentage as a guide. However, the overiding factor in determining his Light Training Days was more introspective.

Make Your Light Days Light

McCain choice for his Light Deadlift Day Training Session was on how it felt. No matter what the weight on the bar was, it needed to feel light.

Once it began to feel heavy, McCain stopped deadlifting for the day.

McCain's training weight on his Light Days was around 560 lbs. That approximately 70% of a 800 lb 1 Repetition Deadlift Max.

So, McCain's dropped his Training Percenage to about 30% of his 1 Repetition Max for 2-5 Repetitions.

The Purpose of Light Days

As per McCain, the purpose of the Light Deadlift Day was to pump blood into the area and allow recovery to take place. That insured his Heavy Deadlift Week was a good one.

Introspective Training

In McCain's final Heavy Deadlift Training Week, his plan was to pull 750 lbs for 2 Repetition.

Instead, McCain pulled 775 lbs X 2 Repetitions.

I was puzzled as to why he decided to even try 775 lbs for 2 Repetitions.

It's More Than Just Math

McCain replied, "Because I knew I could".

As a math guy, that made NO sense to me. However, it was a learning experience for me.

One thing great athlete's instinctively do is know when they know they can do something.

Gut Reaction

One of the things we all have some degree of is a "Gut Reaction" to things. The more we learn to listen to the "Gut Reaction", the better we become with it.

Take Home Message

1) Recovery. Resets need to be a light and easy to allow for recovery. Training Percentage need to be dropped down 20% or more, for the most part to allow recovery to take place.

2) Make You Light Days, Light. The purpose of a fairly light day is to pump blood into the muscles.

The Circulatory System is a Transport System. It delivers nutrients to the msucles and hauls off "the trash". Thus, light days enhance recovery.

Active vs Passive Recovery

Research has demonstrated that after a hard training session that Active Recovery (mild to moderate training) enhances recovery moreso than Passive Recovery (sitting around doing nothing).

What Active Recovery does is increase blood flow. Increased blood flow to the muscles enhances recovery.

Kenny Croxdale

[Rob Waskis]

Not In The Range

I appreciate the math break down. However, that is not what I am talking about.

Look Kenny, as both Tom and I tried to point out to you, he's following a specific program laid out in detail in a book. You clearly haven't read the book, so you don't have an informed opinion on this. Please don't try to offer opinions on how to run a program that you didn't create, haven't read the book for, and have never even tried.

[PFerrari]

Scheduled De-Load Weeks in 531
Within 531, there is also a whole week every 4 weeks of something like 50% weights if I recall correctly. I haven't looked at the exact percentages in awhile, but I know it's around there.

Probably In Line With Kenny's Thinking
This would probably fit into Kenny's description of a light week.

Using Percentages

The program is built on percentages. If you're suggesting OP choose a different program, that's fine. But one of the reasons people like 531 is because of easy to follow percentages.

The End

That's all I have to say

[JM3]

I ran 531 for a while with schedule/lifestyle problems. If I had reset 10% when I stalled due to missing workouts and poor recovery I would have gradually regressed my lifts to less than what they were when I started. YMMV.

This is a nugget. And had occurred to me. I just progressed a smidgen today on bench 531 week, thats after missing bench on my last cycle- so I was basing weights on two months ago. And I progressed. Just went for reps on the last set and keep poundage identical...ok, so I only got 2 reps - but progress is progress.

I'm not one to retreat from putting the weight on the bar- my form is shit though. I know I can squat 360- but missing workouts had me 3/4 squatting 355. So I figure, back off until I can double reps on top set- sets Ive just been hitting prescribed reps on, and using the increased volume to spur progress.
Sounds reasonable huh? But I appreciate what you mean.

[Kenny Croxdale]

Look Kenny, as both Tom and I tried to point out to you, he's following a specific program laid out in detail in a book. You clearly haven't read the book, so you don't have an informed opinion on this. Please don't try to offer opinions on how to run a program that you didn't create, haven't read the book for, and have never even tried.

The 5/3/1 is an old program. There nothing new about it.

I am familar with it.

Kenny Croxdale

[Tom Narvaez]

Kenny, the program looks like this:

Week 1: 85% at 5+ reps (you're supposed to do as many reps as you can, leaving 1-2 in the tank)
Week 2: 90% at 3+ reps (again, + means AMRAP, as many reps as possible)
Week 3: 95% at 1+ reps
Week 4: 60% at 5 reps

Then, you add 10lbs to the training max the percentages are based on and repeat. Resetting by 20-30%, as per your suggestions, using someone with a 405 squat max, would result in a new training max of approximately 285 or 325. Based on the programs protocols, your advice would mean that he would not get back to the previous weights he was using for anywhere between 8-12 months. Because, again, the program calls for only adding 10lbs to your training max per month. Your suggestion, while absolutely accurate and reasonable for most other periodized programs, is not reasonable in this case. If he wants to listen to your advice, that's fine, but he should probably not do Jim Wendler's version of 5/3/1 if that is the case. It does not take 1 year for recovery to occur.