Late LP Heavy/ Light squat & deadlift

[BradBv]

Hi all,

I’m returning to lifting after 4 years of detraining. My previous meet PRs are:
S 501
B 331
D 552
Bw 240
Height 6,2

I’m running a LP in my basement gym in which the ceiling is too low to press and I’m simply not interested in the power clean. I have been taking 5lb jumps in squats and dead’s for several weeks.

My most recent workout was:

Squat 350x5x3
Bench 227.5x5x3
Deadlift 385x5
Age 34

Heavy squats followed by heavy deads is getting daunting and resulting in long and exhausting training sessions. I have recently read the grey book again so I am familiar with the stock recommendations for pulling heavy every 5th session.

I have been toying with the idea of alternating heavy squats with light deadlifts then light squats with heavy deadlifts (heavy/ light) resulting in week 1 having two heavy squat sessions with 1 heavy pulling session followed by the reverse the following week (2 heavy pulling workouts and 1 heavy squat).

The idea is to only have 1 tough lower body lift per session therefore balancing S and D efforts throughout the week. This would average the rate of progression with the 2 lifts evenly to an average of 7.5lbs a week.

My question is if this is a reasonable approach? Is this setting my back up to crash and burn due to too much heavy pulling while not applying enough stress in the squat to drive more weeks of steady progress?

I am contemplating this approach to keep changes minimal as I transition into heavy/ light/ medium.

Thank you for taking the time to help me out.

Brad

[Cole Gorton]

i follow your training log and have noticed some days you do H squat and H DL in the same session, while other days you do L squat and L DL in the same session. your overall numbers are higher than mine so im not gonna pretend to know whats best for you, but if i were you i would simply pull H on the days you squat L.

i would NOT pull H 2 days in one week. that would derail me over the course of a couple months.

so you squat may need to move to more of a HLM type where your L day is wednesday, coinciding with your H day DL. just my 2 cents

[Matt Dawson]

i follow your training log and have noticed some days you do H squat and H DL in the same session, while other days you do L squat and L DL in the same session. your overall numbers are higher than mine so im not gonna pretend to know whats best for you, but if i were you i would simply pull H on the days you squat L.

i would NOT pull H 2 days in one week. that would derail me over the course of a couple months.

so you squat may need to move to more of a HLM type where your L day is wednesday, coinciding with your H day DL. just my 2 cents

I agree with Cole. Heavy deadlift on the light squat day works OK for late novice programming.

[BradBv]

Thank you Cole. Likewise I check in on your log quite frequently.

You are correct, I have been running my squats and dead's on a H/L/H pattern together. My problem is that I work 4 days a week Mon- Thurs usually 11-12 hours a day so the sessions that I squat and pull heavy are ugly as I’m usually sleep deprived through the week.

Having run the NLP through late Texas method in the past I found that while my squat was maxed near the end my deadlift had room to grow once I added more frequency and volume hence my thought process here.

Your proposal is basically option B for me. Squat heavy Monday and Friday while pulling heavy on Wednesday. My problem here is that I feel like my deadlift will be short changed and eventually be handling the same numbers as my squat. Just wondering if anyone has run a heavy/light alternating template with these two lifts and if this is an intelligent approach.

I was expecting a response of “just do the dam program would you”? This might be correct but I know that eventually the deadlift takes a backseat to the squat and will need more stress via frequency and tonnage while backing off the gas on the squat a bit to improve.

[Maybach]

I would be very surprised if you could make twice weekly increases on your squat for all that much longer while your deadlift slows down. If you like you could probably take one or two 10 pound jumps to give a bit more clearance between the two. But the most likely scenario is you have to drop your squat back to weekly increases sooner rather than later and the two progress in line from there. The mechanism by which they settle will become obvious as you progress.

I mean, you can't be "short changing" your deadlift by not pulling heavy twice per week if you can't actually pull heavy twice a week, right? The deadlift is stressful enough that "more heavy pulling" is very rarely the answer.

[Mark Rippetoe]

Grip?

[BradBv]

Agreed. Thank you. I’ll try a few more weeks of pulling heavy during light squat day, can probably get away with a 10lb jump or two since dead’s have been done after heavy squats up to this point.

[JamesFazz]

Your proposal is basically option B for me. Squat heavy Monday and Friday while pulling heavy on Wednesday. My problem here is that I feel like my deadlift will be short changed and eventually be handling the same numbers as my squat. Just wondering if anyone has run a heavy/light alternating template with these two lifts and if this is an intelligent approach.

I was expecting a response of “just do the dam program would you”? This might be correct but I know that eventually the deadlift takes a backseat to the squat and will need more stress via frequency and tonnage while backing off the gas on the squat a bit to improve.

For a lot of stronger athletes, progress on the deadlift is primarily driven by progress on the squat, i.e. any improvement in your squat strength will contribute to improvement in your deadlift strength and they may come to have an almost static 'distance apart'. For me, when I could squat 140kg, I deadlift around 190. Now I have squat 165kg and deadlift 215 and that sort of static relationship is quite common in my observation.

In short, I wouldn't worry about the distance between them closing, it may still close some, but any progress you're making on the squat should still be driving up your deadlift numbers too. Having a disproportionately strong squat isn't a bad thing!

[BradBv]

Double overhand strapped.

Once in awhile I use the hook grip to appease the masochist in me.

[Jason Donaldson]

Having a disproportionately strong squat isn't a bad thing!

Just as long as it's for a good reason, of course, and not because squat depth is high, DLs are skipped or cut short, etc. It's very important to make sure that none of these are factors before concluding, "hey, anthropometry"...

Dr. Santana has written and talked about the SQ and DL interfering with each other for later post-novice trainees. I've personally found at this point in my training that I cannot effectively push both lifts hard at the same time, and usually it's my DL that suffers if I try. I am better built for squats than deads, which doesn't help with that. I can't just leave out the squat altogether, but I do have to be very careful to rein it in to keep the pull going up. This all became an issue well AFTER the novice phase, however.