Robb Wolf Dave Castro stuff

[alongsummer1]

Rip-
What are your thoughts about the drama going on at crossfit?

[Mark Rippetoe]

Well, we're not associated with CrossFit anymore and our seminar in Wichita Falls on the 12th-13th of December will be our last formal interaction with the organization, to fulfill our obligations to the people who signed up for the seminar. We ended our business relationship with CrossFit September 16th.

It's been brought to my attention by several people that CrossFit.com is not fostering an open discussion of these matters. I'm going to refrain from any personal comments, but if you guys want to talk about it here, get busy.

This thread will be moderated for excessive craziness.

[stronger]

Any details on this? I haven't heard about it.

Does it have to do with "The Black Box Summit Or How I Got Fired from the CrossFit Nutrition Certification" post towards the middle of the page? http://robbwolf.com/

[Smiler Grogan]

See IGX for a comprehensive history of crossfit drama from around 2006 to this minute. HIGHLY entertaining stuff.

[pbjorge12]

See IGX for a comprehensive history of crossfit drama from around 2006 to this minute. HIGHLY entertaining stuff.

Could you point me to links of some of the juicier stuff perhaps?
I went to IGX but everything seems pretty fucking disorganized...

[Bloodninja666]

Ive seen enough of this organization to conclude that its leadership figures are in well over their heads. They may have started out with a creative idea, but lack of business sense and professionalism will be the limiting factor in Crossfit's growth.

Glassman was lucky enough to introduce a good product at a time when the market was ready for it. After this period of organic growth, Crossfit is primed to explode into the mainstream. Companies that successfully accomplish this transition almost always share a few common traits... and I do not see any of these in Crossfit's management. They do not have their brand squared away, do not have a close eye on their market as the demands of that market have continued to evolve, do not have leadership in place that is capable fostering talent and growth of people and ideas within the organization. Dictatorial family businesses shoot themselves in the foot in this manner all the time...

In the world I come from, no investor in their right mind would put any capital into Crossfit while allowing Glassman and Co have any operational control of the company.

This Robb Wolf stunt may actually be CF's high water mark, as the quality affiliates and consultants capable of absorbing the best ideas splinter off.

[pbjorge12]

Apparently Robb Wolf has been replaced by Barry Sears for the nutrition certs (at least temporarily)...

[nisora33]

From the Irongarmx forum (the infamous "couch thread"):


"An attorney weighs in on the confrontation and liability on the part of @FHQ...it's not looking pretty.

http://robbwolf.com/?p=976#comments
Quote:
Dave
Posted November 27, 2009 at 8:35 pm | Permalink

'Latham:

I first want to disclose that I don’t know you. I also don’t know Greg, though I met him once a number of years ago. I do know Robb, to an extent, as I work out at his gym, (which is why I am here).

As a practicing civil and corporate attorney, I generally find that such an “incident” as described by the various participants and witnesses, generally falls into the position of, “everyone was at fault to a degree”. However, your postings on this issue simply shock me. I can only deduct that you are not a licensed Attorney and have no concept concerning corporate requirements for avoiding hostile work environments and workplace violence. Your statement that, “Dave’s behavior is not relevant here”, is not only wholly unsupported by both case and statutory law, but also could be viewed as an admission that CF Inc., does not believe it has an affirmative duty to avoid workplace violence.

As the 2nd man at HQ, Dave represents the Business Entity of CF Inc. As such, both California Corporate and Civil law impose certain responsibilities upon him when he is acting on behalf of the corporation, (and given that Dave was here in California representing CF Inc., California law would apply). (YOU SHOULD KNOW THIS)

One of these responsibilities is to enforce a Non-Violent and Non-Hostile work environment. You concede that Dave had a ‘tantrum’. You concede that he, “probably heard what he wanted to hear”. You concede that he used demeaning and offensive language, (fat fuck). You concede that he initiated the ‘heated confrontation’ by using the above referenced language. Any one of these items could make the Corporation as a whole, each individual officer, and each individual director PERSONALLY liable for both civil as well as punitive damages, IF this situation is not handled correctly. Taken together, (if you speak on behalf of CF Inc., or if your written admissions were to be found by a court to represent the general knowledge of the officers and directors of the corporation), you have admitted that you KNOW that you have a ’supervisor’ employee that is creating a hostile and potentially violent work environment.

Please note that Greg has indicated that Dave physically assaulted him by employing a ‘control maneuver’ to his neck. There are apparently at least 2 witnesses that also saw this assault. Again, I don’t know Dave, but if his military background really does include being trained as a SEAL, (and CF Inc. knows this), then this loss of control you admit, combined with the deadliness of his training, SHOULD give EVERYONE concern about how much damage he could do to someone. So obviously, both Greg’s and Robb’s actions and purported statements would HAVE to be reviewed under such a light. Which makes Dave’s actions not only relevant, but highly probative. This fact alone WOULD be used by an attorney to prove HOW grave the threat Greg and Robb felt, (and the increased duty for CF Inc. to do something to make sure that Dave could never do such again.

Any corporate counsel worth their pay, hearing even one bit of what you have admitted, would have instructed you and everyone else at CF Inc. to keep your bloody mouths shut and hire outside counsel to do a complete and thorough investigation. So either you guys don’t have effective legal counsel, or you are not listening to them. At a minimum, California case law, (and based on the Act to Prevent Workplace Violence), Federal law REQUIRES, CF Inc. to have an independent 3rd party investigation of this incident, (typically an independent law firm specializing in such investigations). CF Inc. should also suspend Dave pending the outcome of this investigation. Failure to follow all of these steps could lead to CF Inc, its officers and directors, becoming personally liable for Dave’s actions, (because they did not use reasonable prudence to investigate the incident and protect their workers and business associates from such violence in the work place).

As to your laments about Robb not ’supporting’ CF programs, diets, etc., one wonders HOW a well run corporation could embark on a diet plan that IS NOT fully supported by the very expert they refer to as their “Nutrician Guru”. If Robb is telling Corp. that there is a better way, or that an unweighed Paleo Plan has some advantages, why is Corporate not listening and promoting such information? Typically, there are only 3 basis to support such Corporate governance. First, is that the Corporation has an invested interest in promoting a particular “product”. Such as maybe the owners, officers, directors, or even the corporation itself, may have an investment in the Zone Diet, such that there is a financial benefit from such cross-promotion. Second, that the decision to support the “product” was made at some point in the past, and the Corp. is reluctant to change their position simply because it costs more and takes longer to “change or adjust” such messages. Third, the corporation has other independent information/evidence that makes them believe their inside expert is not correct.

Your posting expressly states that Robb’s nutritional insight and advice may be right, (”probably is true”). You try to downplay the problem of Corp HQ pushing the Zone even if it is not the best choice, by specifically highlighting the fact that each gym and owner, is free to advise their clients as they see fit. No where do you indicate that you have outside information that contradicts Robb’s recommendations. So there does not appear to be any basis that the Third explanation fits. Rather, you simply focus on CF Inc., wanting to promote the Zone Diet, and Corporate HQ not liking the fact that Robb was recommending a variant. Again, corporate counsel should be screaming at you. IF CF Inc. is primarily dedicated to its athletes, and improving their health, performance and lives, then it MUST always strive to promote the best nutritional and exercise information and instruction available. Rather, your statements seem to clearly indicate that this is simply a CONTROL issue, where Corporate HQ wants to DEMAND that their “Nutritional Guru” tells people what Corporate HQ wants them to hear, (even when you admit Robb’s advice is probably better than the corporate message).

I don’t know what leverage or position you may hold in CF Inc., Latham, but CF has grown because people are seeing results. I ignored Robb’s nutritional advice for 2 years. CF still improved my performance and allowed me to lose some weight, but it was not until I started following his nutritional advice a year ago, that my life really changed. THAT is what people are seeing. THAT is why a number of my friends and business associates have joined CF. When CF Inc., starts to care more about controlling its BRAND, than the success of its MEMBERS, that is when CF Inc., will start its long and slow decent that has captured most of your competition. And sadly, that is what your posts clearly seem to be indicating.'

Much more here:

http://www.irongarmx.net/phpBB2/view...435246#p435246

[nisora33]

And here are Robb and Greg's accounts of the events, respectively:

http://robbwolf.com/?p=976

http://performancemenu.com/wod/index...d&dailyID=1016

You should all be proud of Uncle Rip for splitting from CrossFit.

[DeepBlue]

Let's hope Rip and Robb do some talking and some joined up thinking.

I love the quotations from Russell Berger:
"At the end of day one, the CrossFit Central staff put us through a fun, short workout. Thiel and Kepler moved through their staff, motivating and coaching CrossFitters. The rest of the Summit staff retreated to their own separate strength workout, ironically right after the emphasis on quality training."

and:
"At the end of our second day, we all did a team workout consisting of pull-ups, deadlifts, wall-ball shots, and 800m sprints. While The CrossFit Central Staff worked to make the event happen, and Thiel supervised, the rest of the Seminar staff again retreated to a corner of the gym where they did their own strength workout. They didn’t coach or interact with any of us."


Yep. After the emphasis on quality training, given by some highly experienced CROSS FIT affiliates, these 'staff' (probably not, just paid/unpaid presenters) went and did a STRENGTH workout, leaving the other attendees to follow a CF workout. Yup, sounds good to me.

"They didn't coach or interact with any of us." Yup. Unless you asked them to, it's not their job, or in their interest too. Sorry, but if I was paying for a coach, and Rip walked over and started coaching me, I'd be very happy, but I'd also consider it quite unprofessional. You don't 'muscle in' on someone else's session and Thiel & Kepler were running the session.

Man, this Russell is a funny guy. CrossFit just lost serious respect from me today (not that I was holding its stock very highly).