Carryover: Vertical Leap and Press

[Gary Gibson]

As most of you know, I spend most of my training time low bar squatting and bench pressing. I have to for my sport. As a specialist I accept that I won't be as good at other things. But I'm always curious about carryover.

After my last Russian Squat Routine w/ a Smolov chaser, my knees were too swollen to bend very well and it's taken ten days of rest for me not to feel so beaten up. I finally feel like my normal agility has returned so I thought I'd try two things that I always hope get some carryover from a bigger squat and bench: vertical leap and standing press, respectively.

Vertical was a bust. I've taken my squat from 345 to 405 this year and my vertical hasn't budged. Granted I don't really train it, but I'd hoped that the increased strength would help speed a little. To be honest, I think vertical leap relies more on quads (long jump and sprinting are more hams/glutes, this all according to Kelly Baggett) and thus a more quad-dominant squat (high bar or front squat) along with specific practice.

To be even more honest, my vertical hasn't really budged since I was in high school and couldn't quite squat my measly little bodyweight. Since attaining my adult height of 5'9"-10" I've been able to jump high enough to grab the rim and hang. Granted, I'm 40 lbs heavier now. I would love to hear from anyone who has significantly increased their vertical. Did you do lots of Oly movements? Type of squats? Depth jumps (which I use)?? How did any strength increases correlate. Thanks.

I was happy to find that my press has increased along with my bench. While on high volume squats my press actually went down because my midsection muscles were so constantly fatigued from all the squatting (I was using a belt after all ). Now that I'm rested, I'm very pleased to find a new press max: 145, just another 20 lbs to bodyweight...of course I'll probably be a lot heavier by the time I get to a 165 press. I imagine a little press specialization could get me to 150-155 right now at 165, but I haven't really the room for it in training. Just going to have to take whatever carryover the bench gives me for the foreseeable future.

[msingh]

Standing vertical hasn't changed at all no matter what i've done to my body. Adding 35 kg of bodyweight made no difference. Running vertical is another matter altogether. When i was fit and lean I could jump a lot higher than now. It just hurts the joints too much to try that now, plus even when I risk the pain and injury I cant get as high. If as they claim that deadlift and squatting can carry over to running then there is a possibility that once i've removed the fat, my running vertical will improve on previous bests.

Can anyone explain why standing vertical doesnt change with fluctuating bodyweight?

[nisora33]

Vertical jumping needs to be trained specifically in order for any general strength that you might have gained to be utilized.

-Stacey

[Gary Gibson]

Vertical jumping needs to be trained specifically in order for any general strength that you might have gained to be utilized.

-Stacey

Exactly what would specific vertical jump training look like if you had your druthers?

[pbjorge12]

Vertical jumping needs to be trained specifically in order for any general strength that you might have gained to be utilized.

-Stacey

How much gain is possible do you think over the natural jumping ability.

Let's say I have a natural jump of around 19 inches. If I got up to a 300lbx5 back squat and did some intelligent jump training for a month... Am I looking at 2 inches of added height? Or possibly 10?

What is a realistic increase that one can expect from strength increases and jump training?

[Sgsolberg]

Standing vertical hasn't changed at all no matter what i've done to my body. Adding 35 kg of bodyweight made no difference. Running vertical is another matter altogether. When i was fit and lean I could jump a lot higher than now. It just hurts the joints too much to try that now, plus even when I risk the pain and injury I cant get as high. If as they claim that deadlift and squatting can carry over to running then there is a possibility that once i've removed the fat, my running vertical will improve on previous bests.

Can anyone explain why standing vertical doesnt change with fluctuating bodyweight?

Msingh, the answer is that you are not trying hard enough. I don't understand your difficulty with jumping higher. You are full of hot air. If you really want to lose weight, consider having your stomach removed. Alternatively, there are other solutions such as gastric bypass or lypo. You are obviously too obese to be of any use to society. I sincerely hope you never procreate.

[msingh]

One way you could increase your jump is if you start training your calves. Squatting doesnt do much for them. I've found mine get sore recently after playing some pickup games. But if you're already playing ball you wont gain much of course. If someone was completely unadapted to jumping (ha), they'd gain from doing plyometrics + squatting. That's what bagett claims anyway. He says around 10cm if you do both, and around 4cm if you do only one of these two.

[stronger]

this topic has been discussed throughout the years, some interesting threads to be found over on Rip's board

[knox]

I agree with nisora. Vertical jump is surprisingly dissimilar to barbell exercises. To illistrate this point:

The equation for power is: power=strength/time. The power clean is a strength-based power exercise. No matter how much you can power clean, you always perform it at approximately the same speed. Thus, the power clean is improved by increasing the amount of strength that can be applied in a set period of time. In a vertical jump, the only strength you need is strength enough to overcome your bodyweight. Therefore, the way the vertical jump is improved is by decreasing the time it takes to apply a set amount of strength - i.e. a vertical jump is a speed-based power exercise. This cannot be trained well with barbells, since barbell exercises are designed to train strength and strength-based power.

So basically squats aren't going to help your vertical.

[msingh]

Msingh, the answer is that you are not trying hard enough. I don't understand your difficulty with jumping higher. You are full of hot air. If you really want to lose weight, consider having your stomach removed. Alternatively, there are other solutions such as gastric bypass or lypo. You are obviously too obese to be of any use to society. I sincerely hope you never procreate.

you're so cute. how old are you? are you trying to be a mini-ripp? Because you're trying so hard to sound like him. Stick to the topic please and dont make personal attacks, unless you have enough originality to pull it off

former nba player charles barkley was quite heavy early during his career (250-260 lb i think). http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZNtcBpwyFEs .. but that made no difference, he could outjump and outrebound nearly everyone around him even at his relatively small size.

guys like bill starr also had a decent vertical. he wrote a whole article http://www.ironmanmagazine.com/site/?p=1229 on how to improve it, but even he only promised a few inches if that.