starting strength observations

[coldfire]

And we are back to this post: http://www.startingstrength.com/reso...0&postcount=24

[confuzzl3don3]

I agree with Raskolnikov. Since the people who have been previously training to mostly increase their upperbody (bench and press) strength, then who says that if you complete SS then focus on the upperbody, you could achieve the same amount of gains in a shorter timeframe or even surpass such gains.

[mrflibble]

even one missed workout will set you back.

Missing work outs will set you back? No kidding!

Your comments in this thread are so full of shit I find it hard to believe you're being serious.

First you say because someone who has spent years more benching has a higher bench than a beginner, means SS is flawed .. and now you add skipping work outs as further evidence of the flaws in SS? Fuck, I bet SS is so flawed that it doesn't work if all you do is read the book and don't lift!

Really, this is just another sad example in your trend of blaming Rip for your own inability to follow the program correctly.

[tennisgod]

msingh isn't blaming Rip... He's just testing the validity of the program and asking you all for help. Seems reasonable to me.

[knox]

msingh isn't blaming Rip... He's just testing the validity of the program and asking you all for help. Seems reasonable to me.

No. He's trying to justify the fact that the program hasn't worked for him by blaming it on the program itself instead of accepting that he didn't do it correctly. If you read through his posts, you will notice that he lacks an understanding of the fundamental principles expressed in SS:BBT. You can defend him all you want, but there is a very definite reason that tempers flare every time he posts.

[DeepBlue]

Just do the microloading OK? Do 1/2kg 1lb if you have to.

Jeez. If you cut the increases sooner you'd manage them.

As ever, DO THE PROGRAM.

[tescott]

If you read through his posts, you will notice that he lacks an understanding of the fundamental principles expressed in SS:BBT

+1

A guy is a novice until he can't do linear progress on squat any longer at which stage he becomes an intermediate. It doesn't matter about upper body lifts, you keep benching and pressing throughout as per program, it's squats which determine your level of training.

Get this man a copy of PP! Stat!

[nisora33]

Yeah, msingh, I'm getting the impression that you haven't read Practical Programming or at least haven't read it very well. Had you, I don't think this thread would even exist. Consider what you say here:

It doesn't matter about upper body lifts, you keep benching and pressing throughout as per program, it's squats which determine your level of training.

Wrong. Squats do not determine your status. You can have an intermediate bench or press but be a "novice" in the squat. This is explained in PP and has been explained numerous times by Rip on this board. You're making yourself look like a fool.

When you're presented with a set of data, and you attempt to explain the data, then as a repsonsible scientist and thinker you're obligated to explore not only one theory, but multiple theories, and the one with the most explanatory power that takes into account all of the facts is the one that you go with. Yours is only one theory, and not the most likely one, in my opinion.

You have a genetic upper limit to your strength. Think of it as a ceiling, the closer to which you get, the slower your progress becomes. Someone with a moderately impressive bench at the beginning of SS will have an even bigger one by the end of their novice phase, true. However, their gains will have come much more slowly than those of the novice whose bench pressing strength was farther away from his or her genetic "ceiling." Both the inexperienced and relatively experienced bench pressers will have a stronger bench by the end of SS novice programming. Sure, the more experienced presser's will be larger, but why is this such a revelation to you, msingh?

-Stacey

[stronger]

No. He's trying to justify the fact that the program hasn't worked for him by blaming it on the program itself instead of accepting that he didn't do it correctly. If you read through his posts, you will notice that he lacks an understanding of the fundamental principles expressed in SS:BBT. You can defend him all you want, but there is a very definite reason that tempers flare every time he posts.

this ^

I'm all for a cogent criticism, but he fails to understand pretty basic facts about the program, and I think he's looking for confirmation that his lack of progress is normal.

[Gary Gibson]

Yeah, msingh, I'm getting the impression that you haven't read Practical Programming or at least haven't read it very well. Had you, I don't think this thread would even exist. Consider what you say here:

It doesn't matter about upper body lifts, you keep benching and pressing throughout as per program, it's squats which determine your level of training.

Wrong. Squats do not determine your status. You can have an intermediate bench or press but be a "novice" in the squat. This is explained in PP and has been explained numerous times by Rip on this board. You're making yourself look like a fool.

When you're presented with a set of data, and you attempt to explain the data, then as a repsonsible scientist and thinker you're obligated to explore not only one theory, but multiple theories, and the one with the most explanatory power that takes into account all of the facts is the one that you go with. Yours is only one theory, and not the most likely one, in my opinion.

You have a genetic upper limit to your strength. Think of it as a ceiling, the closer to which you get, the slower your progress becomes. Someone with a moderately impressive bench at the beginning of SS will have an even bigger one by the end of their novice phase, true. However, their gains will have come much more slowly than those of the novice whose bench pressing strength was farther away from his or her genetic "ceiling." Both the inexperienced and relatively experienced bench pressers will have a stronger bench by the end of SS novice programming. Sure, the more experienced presser's will be larger, but why is this such a revelation to you, msingh?

-Stacey

Good post. Well said.

msingh, how about some numbers to help me understand? You said one needs all three lifts to be strong and that SS leads to squat and deadlift overpowering the bench. What's a "balanced" bench against a squat in your mind?