Is the squat necessary?

[El Viejo]

I knew the title would get somebody's attention. Although nobody on this forum needs to be convinced of the value of squatting, it's nice to hear other knowledgeable and experienced people corroborate what you believe. Here's a link to an interesting discussion between former competitive bodybuilder, Dr. Lon Lowery, and competitive power lifter, Robert Fortney, on the value of the squat.
http://ironradio.org/Audio/EVSE_NOV_squat_mandatory.wma

I found Fortney's comments on what he considers to be respectable poundages for work sets particular interesting (and surprising considering that he's a power lifter and has been around some very strong guys) .

[Gary Gibson]

I love the squat lovefest at the beginning, but by the end their bodybuilder bias for high bar gets a little hard to take.

"Perfect squats with upright back"

"All the way down to the floor"

It's code for "a good back squat mimics a front squat."

[Mr.City]

Low Bar is worse, Gary. I've seen BB mags try to reproduce it and the model's arms look like twisted turkey wings.

[El Viejo]

I love the squat lovefest at the beginning, but by the end their bodybuilder bias for high bar gets a little hard to take.

"Perfect squats with upright back"

"All the way down to the floor"

It's code for "a good back squat mimics a front squat."

They obviously haven't read Ripp's latest article. However, the comments about how the few who do squat seem to always do those 1/4 squat thingies and the real reason that most don't squat is because it's hard are still valid.

[JaKri]

In terms of strength squatting is done for two reasons:

1) Leg Strength

2) Powerlifting Competition

I think it is rather interesting to ask, why to back squat if it is not a competition lift. Of course, it is a great overall exercise, but back squats are a compromise. The Deadlift activates more muscle mass and is a greater overall strength feat and therefore could be a replacement of the Backsquat. You don´t have to worry about a transfer to the Deadlift in that case. Moreover, I don´t understand why an athlete has to prefer Backsquats over Deadlifts for absolute overall strength. Squatting itself with the strech refelx at the bottom is not a reallife movement (or does anyone here squats down with heavy objects on the shoulders?), so the only reason for an athlet is leg stregth. For training leg strength I claim that frontsquats are superior to Backsquats because of the reduced lower back involvement. Being 6"3 with long legs the Backsquats do not train my legs as good as Frontsquats do and do no longer have any transfer to the Deadlift. So I quit training the Backsquat.

[Gary Gibson]

In terms of strength squatting is done for two reasons:

1) Leg Strength

2) Powerlifting Competition

I think it is rather interesting to ask, why to back squat if it is not a competition lift. Of course, it is a great overall exercise, but back squats are a compromise. The Deadlift activates more muscle mass and is a greater overall strength feat and therefore could be a replacement of the Backsquat. You don´t have to worry about a transfer to the Deadlift in that case. Moreover, I don´t understand why an athlete has to prefer Backsquats over Deadlifts for absolute overall strength. Squatting itself with the strech refelx at the bottom is not a reallife movement (or does anyone here squats down with heavy objects on the shoulders?), so the only reason for an athlet is leg stregth. For training leg strength I claim that frontsquats are superior to Backsquats because of the reduced lower back involvement. Being 6"3 with long legs the Backsquats do not train my legs as good as Frontsquats do and do no longer have any transfer to the Deadlift. So I quit training the Backsquat.

Been hanging out on the Dragondoor boards, haven't you?

From 2005-2007 I said everything you said. Then I realized what a great disservice I'd done to myself and my training by not back squatting. I deadlifted, front squatted, poo pooed the back squat.

You haven't done your reading if you think the front squat is superior for leg and strength development than the back squat. And you're not going to believe what I write here. In fact, you'll probably get offended and feel attacked.

But let me tell you that my front squat and deadlift both soared after I spent a couple years doubling my back squat.

I don't even deadlift very often anymore (and I really need to in order to maximize my ability on the lift), but I've added about 100 lbs to my deadlift. I'll do even more when I start training it again. I only stopped to focus on the squat because I'd neglected it for so long to focus on front squats and deadlifts. My front squat stalled at about 185 while my deadlift stalled at 345. I had a back squat of a little over 225 at the time. I got my back squat up to 405 and now without practice I can front squat 245 and deadlift (conventionally) 445. Draw your own conclusions.

[Gary Gibson]

In terms of strength squatting is done for two reasons:

1) Leg Strength

2) Powerlifting Competition

I think it is rather interesting to ask, why to back squat if it is not a competition lift. Of course, it is a great overall exercise, but back squats are a compromise. The Deadlift activates more muscle mass and is a greater overall strength feat and therefore could be a replacement of the Backsquat. You don´t have to worry about a transfer to the Deadlift in that case. Moreover, I don´t understand why an athlete has to prefer Backsquats over Deadlifts for absolute overall strength. Squatting itself with the strech refelx at the bottom is not a reallife movement (or does anyone here squats down with heavy objects on the shoulders?), so the only reason for an athlet is leg stregth. For training leg strength I claim that frontsquats are superior to Backsquats because of the reduced lower back involvement. Being 6"3 with long legs the Backsquats do not train my legs as good as Frontsquats do and do no longer have any transfer to the Deadlift. So I quit training the Backsquat.

Waitiminit!

This is your first post...and you come to the Starting Strength board to bash squats...?!

You found this post via a Google search, didn't you? And you just had to toss in your two cents, didn't you? And you haven't done your homework.

(I ask because this is EXACTLY the sort of shit I used to do when I had my Dragondoor-spawned campaign against back squatting.)

This is going to sound like a bit of an arrogant challenge, but would you please give us your training history, current numbers and proof if they sound superhuman?

[coldfire]

In terms of strength squatting is done for two reasons:

1) Leg Strength

2) Powerlifting Competition

I think it is rather interesting to ask, why to back squat if it is not a competition lift. Of course, it is a great overall exercise, but back squats are a compromise. The Deadlift activates more muscle mass and is a greater overall strength feat and therefore could be a replacement of the Backsquat. You don´t have to worry about a transfer to the Deadlift in that case. Moreover, I don´t understand why an athlete has to prefer Backsquats over Deadlifts for absolute overall strength. Squatting itself with the strech refelx at the bottom is not a reallife movement (or does anyone here squats down with heavy objects on the shoulders?), so the only reason for an athlet is leg stregth. For training leg strength I claim that frontsquats are superior to Backsquats because of the reduced lower back involvement. Being 6"3 with long legs the Backsquats do not train my legs as good as Frontsquats do and do no longer have any transfer to the Deadlift. So I quit training the Backsquat.

Deadlifts are not superior. They involve the same muscles over a smaller range of motion and do not provide the same type of stress and respond squats do.
Front squats are not that good for leg strength. I don't know that leg strength is the limiting factor in front squats.
How is reduced involvement of the back superior? It's like saying that using less muscle mass is better.

The number of trolls here is increasing exponentially.

[radiator41]

In terms of strength squatting is done for two reasons:

1) Leg Strength

2) Powerlifting Competition

I think it is rather interesting to ask, why to back squat if it is not a competition lift. Of course, it is a great overall exercise, but back squats are a compromise. The Deadlift activates more muscle mass and is a greater overall strength feat and therefore could be a replacement of the Backsquat. You don´t have to worry about a transfer to the Deadlift in that case. Moreover, I don´t understand why an athlete has to prefer Backsquats over Deadlifts for absolute overall strength. Squatting itself with the strech refelx at the bottom is not a reallife movement (or does anyone here squats down with heavy objects on the shoulders?), so the only reason for an athlet is leg stregth. For training leg strength I claim that frontsquats are superior to Backsquats because of the reduced lower back involvement. Being 6"3 with long legs the Backsquats do not train my legs as good as Frontsquats do and do no longer have any transfer to the Deadlift. So I quit training the Backsquat.

Haven't read the book have you?

[JaKri]

I have read all of Mr. Rippetoe´s books. What´s your point?