body recomposition on starting strength

[msingh]

Robert Fontaine describes in another thread how he did SS for 18 months where he started off at 210lb 20% bf and ate a caloric excess of 500-1000 kcal for some months til he got to 250 lb bw, then dieted down to 10%bf all the while doing SS. First of all -- that means he gained 40lb while only on a 500-1000kcal above maintenance diet, which is very interesting.

Has anyone else had any experience with body recomp starting as a fat guy and ending up leaner and stronger? How the hell did not you not stall and continue to maintain linear progression on a caloric deficit? Robert can you give more detail please, that would be wonderful for many of us fatties wanting to get strong but not able to eat 70s big to get any bigger than we are already. He also mentions that he was on some 3200 kcal which seems a bit high for 'maintenance' but who knows?

Anyway, if you were to construct the perfect diet for a fatty to diet down while getting strong doing linear progression what would it be? Robert if you could give some tips that would be great.

Also could all the big strong 70s fuckers who have nothing useful to add please stay away unless they're a)fat, b)doing SS, c)or both a and b in the past.

[pbjorge12]

I was 20% body fat (hydrostatic weighed), 5ft 10, 175lbs and started at a 225 squat and a 145 Bench. About 1.5 months later I'm now at a 290x5x3 Squat and 175x5x3 Bench.

The first month I gained no weight. For the last 2 weeks I've gained about 5. This is with NO dietary changes. It looks to be a shit ton of muscle as I've gotten noticeably leaner and would probably put myself at 16 or 17% body fat.

I ate meat (cow, chicken, and fish), fruit (apples for fiber), Veggies (Brocoli and carrots), and GOMAD.

I train like a motherfucker. I train with intensity.

Just my experience...

[Cmanuel]

Robert can you give more detail please, that would be wonderful for many of us fatties wanting to get strong but not able to eat 70s big to get any bigger than we are already.

Who says you can't increase strength while eating below maintenance cals??

I've been on this forum for maybe a week now and I can see a trend with 99% of your posts. Its so damn annoying. Maybe you should quit whining about how "SS made you fat" and get under a bar and actually do some work.

[msingh]

Please try to be helpful and take personal attacks elsewhere (eg PM or to my log).

[Cmanuel]

Edited since I'm better than you in the sense that I won't resort to personal attacks to try and prove a point.
-CM
Oh and btw, yes I have SS experience... it helped me to get leaner and stronger than you. Its amazing how well it works if you do it correctly

[milesdyson]

msingh, here i am at 230 before SS and 245 after six months. i'm pretty sure i am at a lower bf% after 6 months.

[milesdyson]

and i guess your question is how you can eat at maintenance and get leaner and stronger? my experience proves you can eat slightly above maintenance as a somewhat fat guy and still end up leaner at a higher bodyweight.

[msingh]

Thanks miles. My understanding is if you eat exactly maintenance then your bodyweight will not change, though you may have some body recomposition occuring where some fat is used for energy to build muscle tissue. If you eat slightly above maintenance then surely your bodyfat will not decrease even though you might put on some muscle. Eating below maintenance well you will definitely lose fat but you're unlikely to build muscle either. So what's the right thing to do?

[RobertFontaine]

Robert Fontaine describes in another thread how he did SS for 18 months where he started off at 210lb 20% bf and ate a caloric excess of 500-1000 kcal for some months til he got to 250 lb bw, then dieted down to 10%bf all the while doing SS. First of all -- that means he gained 40lb while only on a 500-1000kcal above maintenance diet, which is very interesting.

Has anyone else had any experience with body recomp starting as a fat guy and ending up leaner and stronger? How the hell did not you not stall and continue to maintain linear progression on a caloric deficit? Robert can you give more detail please, that would be wonderful for many of us fatties wanting to get strong but not able to eat 70s big to get any bigger than we are already. He also mentions that he was on some 3200 kcal which seems a bit high for 'maintenance' but who knows?

Anyway, if you were to construct the perfect diet for a fatty to diet down while getting strong doing linear progression what would it be? Robert if you could give some tips that would be great.

Also could all the big strong 70s fuckers who have nothing useful to add please stay away unless they're a)fat, b)doing SS, c)or both a and b in the past.

I think you may have misinterpreted or I mistyped:

I gained weight through the 18 months using the SS program and my BF% dropped but I added both fat and muscle during that period.

I tried to eat approximately 500 calories per day over my maintenance requirements. (gain of approximately 1 pound per week)

1) During the first 12 months I did SS as written with 2-3 quarts of milk and whole food. I reset about 4 times with each reset typically running a little shorter than the last. Each time I reset I added another 500 calories per day to my diet. (approximately 16,12,8,6,4 weeks kind of thing). When adding more food wouldn't get me past stalled anymore

I kept a food log using fitday and tried to keep my protein intake @ 1.5 g/pound of body weight and my calories at 500 over maintenance.
I didn't fuss the carb/fat ratios and focused primarily on protein and total calories.

2) I switched to the advanced novice program http://startingstrength.wikia.com/wi...rting_Strength . This bought me another six months and 3 resets.

3) At this point I was 250 and feeling beat up and fat but I was also stronger than I had ever been. I spent the next 20 weeks on a ketogenic diet (palumbo template for a 200 pound man) and brought my weight down to 210.

4) After about 8 weeks of this diet I couldn't maintain the advanced novice program and started reducing both number of work sets and increasing the rest days. I essentially tried to tread water and tried to keep my lifting weights up while accepting that I had less stamina.

5) At 210 I had had enough of not eating and not adding weight to the bar and picked the DC program. Either the Texas Method or Bill Starr 5x5 would have been more effective but I like the aggressive kick the shit out of the logbook nature of DC (it suits my personality)

6) I've been doing DC for 5 months at this point and am sitting at 230 @ 15% and am hitting PR's on weekly basis.

Squat 405 - last night woo hoo.
Bench 305
Deadlift 435

Not amazing totals but my squat started at the obligatory 135, my bench at 95 and my deadlift around 225.

My current maintenance calories are about 3500 and I've lost the will to eat enough to gain weight at this point. I just can't find it in me to eat 4k calories every day so while my strength is still going up for the moment my weight has stalled.

7) Come the new year I'm likely going to commit to 12-16 weeks of the keto diet again and get down below 10% both so I look nice for summer and in the hopes that I'll get the urge to eat like a crazy person afterwards.

.... Some of those 70's big 2000 calorie shakes look like they may have to be part of the answer as I can't eat 4k worth of chicken breasts and green salad.

I don't believe anyone can put on serious muscle without eating more calories than they need to maintain their weight. I believe the current fad of the "Lean Bulk" is complete horseshit. I chose to gain weight THEN lose fat rather than lose fat then gain weight because at the beginning I had no damn muscle on me at all and I would have been a skeleton had I taken the lose weight first path.

[msingh]

Guys, appearances are deceiving, when you train hard and heavy you put on muscle which can give the impression that you've got leaner when it might not be the case -- you're just not as soft as you were previously. I think the most reliable way to check is A)waist size, B)body weight.