What is Progression?

[tennisgod]

Hi all... I read with interest the thread on how long you guys train. Some were training upto 2.5 hours primarily due to the length of rest between sets (7-8 minutes).

I don't want to get to the point of 7-8 minute rests since a) I don't want to have 2.5 hour workouts, and b) I think people get into a habit of longer and longer rests without thought.

But isn't progression also a reduction in rest-time as well? For example, say you establish a new PR at 7-8 minute rests... wouldn't the next workout be a progression if the same weight is done with 5 minute rests, then next workout done at 3 minute rests, and then finally add weight and reset back to the 7-8 minute rest.

I think we all blindly try to add weight without thinking (I'm guilty too). Shouldn't one be maximising the benefit of each weight-level before moving on?

[Jamie J. Skibicki]

"I think we all blindly try to add weight without thinking (I'm guilty too)."

Strength is the ability to generate force. TO get stronger, you have to generate as much force as possible. For squats at least, you ability to generate force maximizes at about 6-10 minutes after a heavy set of five.

"Shouldn't one be maximising the benefit of each weight-level before moving on?"

WHen you can get all 5 at a weight, you have maximized the benefit. Doing more sets in less time is not an indication of strength, but of conditioning.

[Sal Webber]

Warm-up 10 mins
Squat 1 1min
rest 8 min
Squat 2 1 min
rest 8 min
Squat 3 1 min
rest 8 min
Press warmup 8 min
Press 1 1 min
rest 8min
Press 2 1 min
rest 8 min
press 3 1 min
rest 8 min
DL warm up 8 min
DL set 1 min

Total time 1hr 20 min

What's the problem?

[Nauticus]

If you can do your intended amount of reps with less rest, then by all means, please do. The power rack at my gym has too many quarter-squatters who take 10 minute breaks. Only 2 racks, too :/

[tennisgod]

What's the problem?

No problem, I'm simply asking if reducing the rest time constitutes 'progress'.

[pbjorge12]

No problem, I'm simply asking if reducing the rest time constitutes 'progress'.

In terms of conditioning it suggests progress. But I can guarantee you there are better/faster ways to improve conditioning.

[Sal Webber]

Sorry, I wasn't clear. I should have said...that's not 2.5 hrs...so 8 mins rest is no problem, right?

It is all progress. Rip clearly articulates the metabolic pathways that can be trained using weights in both SS and PP. He recommends varying reps and sets as a more effective method though. Once you are "strong enough" for your given sport, I think it makes sense to modify the program to fit your sport. His postulation is that strength is the easiest to acquire as a novice and with reps of 5 you have the most carryover. All other things being equal the stronger more powerful athlete generally wins. What is more advantageous in tennis? the ability to serve @80 mph all day or the ability to serve @125mph a limited number of times? I'd say get strong and powerful enough to have a dominating serve and then work on endurance at that level.

[msingh]

webber, how do you warmup in only 10 minutes? 5 sets in 10 minutes .. i find that hard to do.

[matclone]

I agree with what Skibicki said. Progression in terms of the principles set forth in Starting Strength means adding more weight, not reducing your rest time (unless you're doing dynamic effort sets). I personally do not like to wait any longer than necessary b/t sets. However, if you're not adding weight, you're not progressing.

[hatmanii]

webber, how do you warmup in only 10 minutes? 5 sets in 10 minutes .. i find that hard to do.

Including the 5 min I take on the treadmill/rower, and the 3 min of stretching, I'm at my working sets in less than 15 min.

The warm up sets should be done in succession. It should be light enough that doing all 10-20 warm up reps are very easy and take minimal effort.

There is less than 5 minutes in between my Squat and BP/OH and Deadlift/PC.

Sometimes I wonder if you've even read Ripp's books.