To hell with Aesthetics!!!! Who's with me?

[strengthstarter]

Not saying I don't like the 70sbig site at all. It is fun. But I don't think I've been unfair in my characterization of the site. A clip from an article there:

...So we get outside and he starts talking.

“For breakfast you need to eat four of those breakfast sandwiches from McDonalds. I don’t care which ones you get, but make sure to get four. Order four hash browns, too. Now grab two packs of mayonnaise and put them on the hash browns and then slip them into the sandwiches. Squish that shit down and eat. That’s your breakfast.”

At this point I’m thinking this guy is nuts. But he’s completely serious.

“For lunch you’re gonna eat Chinese food. Now I don’t want you eating that crappy stuff. You wanna get the stuff with MSG. None of that non-MSG bullshit. I don’t care what you eat but you have to sit down and eat for at least 45 minutes straight. You can’t let go of the fork. Eat until your eyes swell up and become slits and you start to look like the woman behind the counter.”

“For dinner you’re gonna order an extra-large pizza with everything on it. Literally everything. If you don’t like sardines, don’t put ’em on, but anything else that you like you have to load it on there. After you pay the delivery guy, I want you to take the pie to your coffee table, open that fucker up, and grab a bottle of oil. It can be olive oil, canola oil, whatever. Anything but motor oil. And I want you to pour that shit over the pie until half of the bottle is gone. Just soak the shit out of it.”

“Now before you lay into it, I want you to sit on your couch and just stare at that fucker. I want you to understand that that pizza right there is keeping you from your goals.”

This guy is in a zen-like state when he’s talking about this.

“Now you’re on the clock,” he continues. “After 20 minutes your brain is going to tell you you’re full. Don’t listen to that shit. You have to try and eat as much of the pizza as you can before that 20-minute mark. Double up pieces if you have to. I’m telling you now, you’re going to get three or four pieces in and you’re gonna want to quit. You fucking can’t quit. You have to sit on that couch until every piece is done.

And if you can’t finish it, don’t you ever come back to me and tell me you can’t gain weight. ’Cause I’m gonna tell you that you don’t give a fuck about getting bigger and you don’t care how much you lift!”

Did I do it? Hell yeah. Started the next day and did it for two months. Went from 260 pounds to 297 pounds. And I didn’t get much fatter. One of the hardest things I’ve ever done in my life, though.

http://70sbig.com/?s=pizza+chinese+food
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Yes, yes, this article is talking about getting over a weight plateau. I get it. My point was just that a person's desire for a body aesthetic will depend on where they are starting out from. And I don't think there is anything wrong with having a desire to look good (whatever that means to you), as long as it isn't taken to an extreme, as it often is.

[August West]

I should be obese according to the online BMI calculator, however I am not.

Yeah those BMI standards are ridiculous. At 6'1 and 225, it puts me at the upper end of "overweight." According to the calculator I saw, I could weigh 150 and still be "normal." That's crazy, I'd be a skeleton if I lost 75 lbs on this frame. Those standards are designed for sedentary people. If I sat around on my ass and did nothing and weighed what I do now, then yes I would be a fat fuck. But why design a set of fitness standards on the assumption that your audience is all sedentary? The very first step to getting healthy should be to start doing shit and stop sitting around.

Everyone's entitled to their opinion about how big they want to get and how useful the 70's Big example is (damn inspiring, for me), but when you look at these BMI standards and other silly conventions it's clear how much the ship of popular opinion could use some righting. A solid push back in the "work hard, get big" direction is the right thing, in my view.

[kidcolin]

I believe training for performance is the best way to train for aesthetics.

this. And the vast majority of novice trainees would be much, much better off focusing on strength for a long time before worrying about body fat. It's a lot easier to look good after you get your squat up to 350+ (preferably 400+), your DL up to 450+, and your bench up to 250+ and then condition yourself to shed some extra body fat than it is to try to keep slim and get strong all at once. Some freaks can do it but for most of us it's just not the case.

I'm 5'9", 215 and I look a lot better than I did when I was a 5'9", 195 weakling. And I'm still not all that strong. My weight is better distributed and I carry it much better. I was just a fat slob. Now I'm like half slob who looks like he could maybe be helpful on moving day. Eventually I'll look like a bad ass lumberjack or something.

As for my $0.02, I think Konstantinovs is the gold standard for performance and aesthetics all in one package. What a monster.

[tennisgod]

I think we are kidding ourselves that aesthetics don't play a large role in our training.
I got into SS because I needed to get stronger to play better tennis and enjoy life more. But I proved in my last major tournament that I now have all the strength necessary to compete at a top-level. I could serve with 100% power the whole tournament (it was a great feeling). Will I play better tennis if I could squat another 50Kg? Don't know... Probably not. I have all the strength necessary to live my current version of my life.
So to continue to get 'stronger' without a plan or reason is, in my opinion, kind-of pointless.
What I like now is that my traps are filling out my neck (my girlfriend and I were laughing at my previous scrawny neck compared to now), my arms are bigger and I can easily wear sleeveless tops, my pecs are actually there, and the biggest reason, my girlfriend said that I look years younger (I'm 50). How good is that?!!!!?

[Mr.City]

I think we are kidding ourselves that aesthetics don't play a large role in our training.
I got into SS because I needed to get stronger to play better tennis and enjoy life more. But I proved in my last major tournament that I now have all the strength necessary to compete at a top-level. I could serve with 100% power the whole tournament (it was a great feeling). Will I play better tennis if I could squat another 50Kg? Don't know... Probably not. I have all the strength necessary to live my current version of my life.
So to continue to get 'stronger' without a plan or reason is, in my opinion, kind-of pointless.
What I like now is that my traps are filling out my neck (my girlfriend and I were laughing at my previous scrawny neck compared to now), my arms are bigger and I can easily wear sleeveless tops, my pecs are actually there, and the biggest reason, my girlfriend said that I look years younger (I'm 50). How good is that?!!!!?

Imagine how things could get even better if you were stronger.

[FatButWeak]

[QUOTE=tennisgod;90595]I think we are kidding ourselves that aesthetics don't play a large role in our training.
I got into SS because I needed to get stronger to play better tennis and enjoy life more. But I proved in my last major tournament that I now have all the strength necessary to compete at a top-level. I could serve with 100% power the whole tournament (it was a great feeling). Will I play better tennis if I could squat another 50Kg? Don't know... Probably not. I have all the strength necessary to live my current version of my life.[QUOTE]

Youre probably too rich, also, huh?

[Tim Lofton]

"...I have all the strength necessary to live my current version of my life."

Well then, I guess you're done.

[elVarouza]

Aesthetics do play a role, let's not lie to ourselves. That isn't saying that anyone wants to look like an Abercrombie model. The point is that no one wants to look fat and out of shape either. There is a huge, noticeable difference between someone who is fat and muscular and someone who is just fat and out of shape.

My point is that while many of us, including myself, are devoted to GOMAD, eating 70s big, etc., we don't want to become incredibly flabby. Look at the guys on 70sbig.com and even at Rippetoe: they don't have six pack abs but they're clearly big and strong. They're not fat. There's a huge difference between the obese guy who is completely sedentary and the huge, muscled guy who has a fair amount of fat. One looks good, one doesn't.

[Mr.City]

I don't think anyone is recommending we become morbidly obese. It's just a rebellion about the bizarre definition of what "fat" is today.

[tennisgod]

"...I have all the strength necessary to live my current version of my life."

Well then, I guess you're done.

Excellent answer, Tim. I just read 'The Novice Effect' from Rip and realised that I'm an idiot. Cheers.