Is this a fair critique of the Power Clean in SS?

[Aslin]

http://www.goarticles.com/cgi-bin/showa.cgi?C=2029802

Obviously I worship Rippetoe as god, but I really do love my BB rows, does this guy have a point?

[Sami]

BLASPHEMER!!!

I don't think it's a question of which lift is best for the upper back, but more which lift is more important than the other in general. In that case, perhaps the PC is better lift in general than the row.

Also, I'm sure the chins and pullups are in the program for a reason, no?

[coldfire]

The guy is an asshole. He obviously missed that deadlifts, overhead presses and pull ups are in the routine, and he missed the point of power cleans.

What the fuck is this bullshit about horizontal and vertical pulling? I thought we pull against gravity?

[PVC]

Obviously I worship Rippetoe as god, but I really do love my BB rows, does this guy have a point?

The point he's trying to make is that power cleans ≠ rows. My spidey senses are tingling - I sense another asshole trying to write a "review" of SS:BBT without having even read the book.

I mean, look at this:
"I find that personally ironic seeing the routine is called starting strength, in which indicates the routine is supposed to develop a strength base, power and strength aren't two of the same. Power is work per unit of time, strength is a muscles ability to generate force within a single contraction."

No fucking shit? If only Mark had dedicated an entire chapter to his book as to why he included the power clean into his program, we wouldn't have this misunderstanding. Oh wait...

Then he states that the lats are the opposing muscle group to the chest and talks about how the exclusion of barbell rows will cause an imbalance between the chest and the lats. Problem with this logic is that the lats are heavily involved in the bench press and the deadlift. And since when are the lats the opposing muscles to the chest?


Then this:

"There's no doubt deadlifts and power cleans will (to an extent) work the upper back (although will not work the posterior deltoids to the extent of overload). But the best way to work a muscle to the point of overload is by performing it's primary function. The primary function of the posterior deltoids is transverse extension, hyper-extending the shoulder; not pulling from the ground. It's existence is based on it's ability to pull the shoulder back beyond it's original region. This is a movement occurring in the row, not the power clean or deadlift. This results in imbalances."

Ah. So NOW we get to the bottom of things. The upper back is worked fine with deadlifts, but the posterior deltoid is not. If only he had read the chapter on the Press, he would know about the "primary function" of the posterior deltoid. And the chapter on the deadlift, so he would know about the "primary function" of the upper back.

[coldfire]

The point he's trying to make is that power cleans ≠ rows. My spidey senses are tingling - I sense another asshole trying to write a "review" of SS:BBT without having even read the book.

I mean, look at this:
"I find that personally ironic seeing the routine is called starting strength, in which indicates the routine is supposed to develop a strength base, power and strength aren't two of the same. Power is work per unit of time, strength is a muscles ability to generate force within a single contraction."

No fucking shit? If only Mark had dedicated an entire chapter to his book as to why he included the power clean into his program, we wouldn't have this misunderstanding. Oh wait...

Then he states that the lats are the opposing muscle group to the chest and talks about how the exclusion of barbell rows will cause an imbalance between the chest and the lats. Problem with this logic is that the lats are heavily involved in the bench press and the deadlift. And since when are the lats the opposing muscles to the chest?


Then this:

"There's no doubt deadlifts and power cleans will (to an extent) work the upper back (although will not work the posterior deltoids to the extent of overload). But the best way to work a muscle to the point of overload is by performing it's primary function. The primary function of the posterior deltoids is transverse extension, hyper-extending the shoulder; not pulling from the ground. It's existence is based on it's ability to pull the shoulder back beyond it's original region. This is a movement occurring in the row, not the power clean or deadlift. This results in imbalances."

Ah. So NOW we get to the bottom of things. The upper back is worked fine with deadlifts, but the posterior deltoid is not. If only he had read the chapter on the Press, he would know about the "primary function" of the posterior deltoid. And the chapter on the deadlift, so he would know about the "primary function" of the upper back.

But he is in the process of getting his ACE certification of Advanced Health and Fitness Specialist. He doesn't need to read the book, since he already knows everything!
I guess everyone who has ever done SS developed shoulder imbalance and got his shoulders destroyed.

[PVC]

But he is in the process of getting his ACE certification of Advanced Health and Fitness Specialist. He doesn't need to read the book, since he already knows everything!
I guess everyone who has ever done SS developed shoulder imbalance and got his shoulders destroyed.

You're right. God, I feel like an idiot. I retract my previous statement, and would like to submit my formal apology.

[Mr.City]

I read a lot on BB.com and other sites where the silly bullshit flows like wine, so I don't want to flip out all over this guy. However, it seems like he knows the program but not the book. Why do we alternate the press with the bench? Why do we introduce pull-ups and chin-ups into the program after a short time?

Also...

I find that personally ironic seeing the routine is called starting strength, in which indicates the routine is supposed to develop a strength base, power and strength aren't two of the same. Power is work per unit of time, strength is a muscles ability to generate force within a single contraction.

smacks of pompousness and ignorance about the program and the benefits of developing power through Olympic-style lifts. But let the program speak for itself. Anyone lack development in the upper back or have rotator cuff issues from doing SS. I know I don't and my press is lagging far behind my bench.

[cannibal.horse]

I expect to get flamed for this. Though I dont agree with him I think the bent row would be better in a few circumstances, particularly powerlifting.

I dont think power cleans fit into a traditional powerlifting split, nor do I think dynamic effort has any place at all in a program (hence the growing popularity of sheiko and 5/3/1).

[coldfire]

I expect to get flamed for this. Though I dont agree with him I think the bent row would be better in a few circumstances, particularly powerlifting.

I dont think power cleans fit into a traditional powerlifting split, nor do I think dynamic effort has any place at all in a program (hence the growing popularity of sheiko and 5/3/1).

Why?

[Phil Stevens]

What the fuck is this bullshit about horizontal and vertical pulling? I thought we pull against gravity?

Im not agreeing with the guy 100% but talking about horizontal and vertical pulling is a simple fact of plane of movement. Hozizontal being anything thats runs perpendicular you the plane of your torso be it with you in a bent position rowing or pulling a rope, object or cable etc toward you, and a vertical pull meaning anything that is parallel to the torso, each have there place do hit similar but different planes and muscle groups of the body.

If one is going to make the bench ( a fairly un-natural strenght move) a main stay in their program like that of us powerlifters a nice steady diet of horizontal rowing to oppose the pushing and internal rotation is a must for both strength and health.

Sure power cleans are great, I use them a lot myself but they are not the end all be all and as one progresses they must expand their tool box a bit and include a great complex barbell move like horizontal rowing if for nothing else then to increase the scapular retraction strength.

While not ideal there are many people who have built amazing strength having never done a power clean in their lives. I kn ow that may scream of blasphemy but it is true