Deadlift lower back rounding help

[mrflibble]

Problem looks just as bad to me.

Hips start too low.

Knees push into the bar and roll it forwards.

Bar loses contact with the legs in later reps.

And most importantly: it doesn't look like you're making any attempt whatsoever to set the back. I'd guess you never have.

I'd drop the weight WAY down. 100kg even. Probably no more than 120kg.

Follow the video linked in the first reply. Search for Rip's instructions "Perfect deadlift every time" or something like that.

[manisstrong]

Problem looks just as bad to me.

Hips start too low.

Knees push into the bar and roll it forwards.

Bar loses contact with the legs in later reps.

And most importantly: it doesn't look like you're making any attempt whatsoever to set the back. I'd guess you never have.

I'd drop the weight WAY down. 100kg even. Probably no more than 120kg.

Follow the video linked in the first reply. Search for Rip's instructions "Perfect deadlift every time" or something like that.

Yep, I found Rip's instructions, here is the link is anyone else is interested: http://startingstrength.com/resource...t=19833&page=1 it's pretty much the same as the set up video. I will be using the set up instructions from the video, and doing 120kg x 5 tomorrow and will film myself.

[manisstrong]

Well I did 120kg x 5 today, for two sets. First set without a belt, second set with a belt. On the set without a belt my back was still rounding. I tried following Rip's deadlift set up. Am I doing it wrong? One thing I noticed which may be causing part of the issue is that when I do the last part, squeezing the chest up, my legs push the bar, making it travel forward. On the video with the belt, my back looked much better.

no belt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SXLzZlgK750

belt: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q9TRWp7hAiY

I'm thinking I might use the belt from here on out. But am I still doing the set up incorrectly, or anything else that might be causing the back rounding technique wise?

[mrflibble]

Am I doing it wrong? One thing I noticed which may be causing part of the issue is that when I do the last part, squeezing the chest up, my legs push the bar, making it travel forward.

Yep, still doing it wrong. Belt doesn't look any better to me. Back isn't set.

Problem is that you're not squeezing your chest up, you're dropping your hips down, which results in them being too low - and the forward push of the bar you noticed.

So with the hips too low, hips rise first with little bar movement, and the back rounds.

Re-read Rip's The Deadlift: Perfect Every Time.

Pay special attention to:

4. Hard part: squeeze your chest up as hard as you can. DO NOT MOVE THE BAR. This establishes a "wave" of extension that goes all the way down to the lumbar, and sets the back angle from the top down. DO NOT LOWER YOUR HIPS – LIFT THE CHEST TO SET THE BACK ANGLE.

[manisstrong]

Hmm yeah comparing Rip's video to mine, I can see that I'm still dropping my hips down. But I wasn't thinking about dropping my hips. I was thinking about raising my chest...

Looks like I'll need to work on that.

[zzt]

I think you sort of know what to do, you have just lost youself in too many options

It's pretty straightforward (and you know this already), your ability to maintain neutral/extended spine under load is limited.....solution....add in some assistance that will help your ability to maintain extension....try some GM's...if they dont work try some RDL's...I would say train the shit out of your abs too with loaded exercises...maybe some TSpine extension type exercises. Thing is, you know you are weak in extension and/or lumbar stability...so do some extra work for that

Although important, I think Perfecting technique is only going to do so much if you have a natural weakness somewhere...you have to work on your weaknesses

Doing some decent shoulder/TSpine mobility can work wonders to keep your chest up as well

[manisstrong]

I think you sort of know what to do, you have just lost youself in too many options

That's definately it. I'm confused and don't have a game plan. Before I had a plan, add 2.5kg to my deadlift each week. Now I'm not quite sure what I'm doing anymore.

It's pretty straightforward (and you know this already), your ability to maintain neutral/extended spine under load is limited.....solution....add in some assistance that will help your ability to maintain extension....try some GM's...if they dont work try some RDL's...I would say train the shit out of your abs too with loaded exercises...maybe some TSpine extension type exercises. Thing is, you know you are weak in extension and/or lumbar stability...so do some extra work for that

Yep, well that's what some of the advice I received was... doing GMs or RDLs. But I'm sure plenty of people here would say that as a beginner I need don't accessory exercises. Which goes back to my confusion/being lost.

[Rezart Erindi]

That's definately it. I'm confused and don't have a game plan. Before I had a plan, add 2.5kg to my deadlift each week. Now I'm not quite sure what I'm doing anymore.



Yep, well that's what some of the advice I received was... doing GMs or RDLs. But I'm sure plenty of people here would say that as a beginner I need don't accessory exercises. Which goes back to my confusion/being lost.

What we need to understand now, is why does your back round: is it b/c of the setup, or b/c the weight is too heavy? I think that this is a case of a little bit of both.
If I were you, I'd do a deload, and pay a lot of attention in the setup. You need to fix this. Afterwards, I'd progress while being careful on not losing form. I'd not add assistance exercises at this point of the game. Video every set of the deads, and you should create an idea of what you're doing wrong. Also I suggest on buying the SS DVD, and watch the deadlift videos. I found them useful.

[zzt]

What we need to understand now, is why does your back round: is it b/c of the setup, or b/c the weight is too heavy? I think that this is a case of a little bit of both.
If I were you, I'd do a deload, and pay a lot of attention in the setup. You need to fix this. Afterwards, I'd progress while being careful on not losing form. I'd not add assistance exercises at this point of the game. Video every set of the deads, and you should create an idea of what you're doing wrong. Also I suggest on buying the SS DVD, and watch the deadlift videos. I found them useful.

I agree with your evaluation, but not your prescription.

Quite often the form and setup will come much easier if you attack the weakness directly to start with. As an example (and to qualify, I am not a westside desciple ) a lot of guys, myself included, make better deadlift progress, training the shit out of RDL, GM's etc, and only pulling conventional once in a month or so....then again, having said tha, some guys make a lot of progress doing nothing but conventioanl pulls with lots of volume and 50% of max...theres no absolutes in this game

If I were you i would firstly, be patient, this aint a race. Second, experiment....Try the 'focus on technique' approach for a month with low %RM and lots of volume/practice....then try the 'Assistance' approach for a month....Thers no time wasted here, its all learning what works for you i guess. I would be interested to hear what happens

[Rezart Erindi]

I agree with your evaluation, but not your prescription.

Quite often the form and setup will come much easier if you attack the weakness directly to start with. As an example (and to qualify, I am not a westside desciple ) a lot of guys, myself included, make better deadlift progress, training the shit out of RDL, GM's etc, and only pulling conventional once in a month or so....then again, having said tha, some guys make a lot of progress doing nothing but conventioanl pulls with lots of volume and 50% of max...theres no absolutes in this game

What is your deadlift 1RM? What I mean is that you are more advanced than the OP.
I'm not criticizing Westside, but I think that OP has some room to advance in the deadlift by doing deadlifts. But again I might be wrong.

If I were you i would firstly, be patient, this aint a race. Second, experiment....Try the 'focus on technique' approach for a month with low %RM and lots of volume/practice....then try the 'Assistance' approach for a month....Thers no time wasted here, its all learning what works for you i guess. I would be interested to hear what happens

I completely agree with this.