Cutting for a Vacation?

[Rusi]

1. Do you really believe that a 10-time Mr. Universe competed at 10% bodyfat?
2. When you remove 5% from 225 you get 214. That's not "pretty close to 190".

I'm not so familiar with that however they were not 5% BF in my opinion. Around 8% seems right. Come on 190lbm IS HUGE for the average person.

[Rusi]

Quoted for truth.

Make them 50000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 00000000000000 dicks.

[Corrie]

I'm average so its true for everybody.

Lol, you are such an idiot Rusi.

[Corrie]

Everyone I've ever gotten to do SS that falls in this category, and even some younger, have gotten up to at least 245x5x3 in about three weeks at most.

That seems like amazing progress. If they were at 245 in 3 weeks they would have to have started at 200 on their first workout if going up by 5's, 155 if going by 10's...

How common is that? You say people weighing 150 do it, but can an untrained novice actually squat their bodyweight the first time they try?

I'm only 5"5.5' and I just hit bodyweight (160lb) on my 14th workout, just over three weeks on the program. I'm either pathetically weak or you are training mutants. What am I missing here? (I haven't stalled yet, I just can't imagine being at 245x3x5 already)

P.s- I was not totally untrained. I had a previous 1rm of 155lb and a few years of random squatting practice. I also don't consider myself mentally weak, been a competitive athlete my whole life and dig deep on my sets.

[Carlos Daniel]

Lol, you are such an idiot Rusi.

Stop quoting him, I'm trying to keep stupid out of my brain.

[Rob Waskis]

I'm not so familiar with that however they were not 5% BF in my opinion. Around 8% seems right.

If you're not familiar with it, on what, pray tell are you basing your opinion?

Come on 190lbm IS HUGE for the average person.

I'm not disputing that point. I'm merely stating that you are comparing a scantily clad bodybuilder with ~214 lbs of LBM with a clothed kid with ~190 lbs of LBM. You then state that because the former looks bigger, the numbers for the latter are innacurate.

[stonerider]

That seems like amazing progress. If they were at 245 in 3 weeks they would have to have started at 200 on their first workout if going up by 5's, 155 if going by 10's...

How common is that? You say people weighing 150 do it, but can an untrained novice actually squat their bodyweight the first time they try?

I'm only 5"5.5' and I just hit bodyweight (160lb) on my 14th workout, just over three weeks on the program. I'm either pathetically weak or you are training mutants. What am I missing here? (I haven't stalled yet, I just can't imagine being at 245x3x5 already)

P.s- I was not totally untrained. I had a previous 1rm of 155lb and a few years of random squatting practice. I also don't consider myself mentally weak, been a competitive athlete my whole life and dig deep on my sets.

typically, you can make 10lb jumps on the squat & deadlift (sometimes more on the deadlift) for the first few weeks

not long after that, most people will have to slow down to 5lb jumps


i don't see any reason why a person not trying to stay at 135lbs shouldn't be able to get to at least 315lbs on the squat for 3x5 before he has to move on to intermediate programming... unless he's old or crippled


and i'm not trying to be a dick corrie, but you are either pathetically weak or else you aren't eating/resting enough (or your form is completely fucked up)

[stonerider]

RE: Zach


I found the post with all of Zach's stats:

Zach Evetts
Age: 20
Bodyweight on 8/27/09: 162
Bodyweight on 11/16/09: 217
Bodyweight gain: 55 lbs.
Seven site skinfold sum: 139mm
Bodyfat: 18.40%
Lean Body Mass: 177 lbs.

Initial bodyfat percentage data not available, but his before-picture is an accurate representation of a male at 10% or below.
Assuming 10% bodyfat on 8/27/09
LBM @ 162: 145.8 lbs.

Gain in LBM in 11 weeks: 31.27 lbs., or 2.84 lbs./week
Gain in bodyfat in 11 weeks: 23.73 lbs.
For an approximate LBM gain of 60%

to

Zach Evetts
March 1, 2010
Bodyweight: 242
Bodyfat % measured at 7 skinfold sites (equation detailed below): 20.95%
LBM: 191.29 lbs.
Bodyweight increase in 15.4 weeks: 25 lbs
191.29 - 177.07 = 14.22 lbs. LBM increase
14.22/25 = 56.8% of gain as LBM, .92 lb./week

Equation: 1.112 - .00043499(x) + .00000056(x^2) - .0028826(age) = body density

(4.57/body density - 4.142)100 = Bodyfat %
Skinfold total: 162mm, 7 sites measured and marked

Equipment used: Lange Skinfold Caliper (Cambridge Scientific)

Okay. There is NO way that is correct. Something got measured wrong or fucked up, because at 6'1" 242lbs and 21% bodyfat, he would have an FFMI (fat-free mass index) of 25.4, and an Adjusted FFMI of 25.8. The upper limit for people who don't use hormones/AAS is around 24-25. THE UPPER GENETIC LIMIT. You are telling me that Zach is either a mutant (not likely), or else he gained ALL OF THE MUSCLE HE WILL EVER HAVE in 6 MONTHS!?!?

Give me a fucking break.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/7496846 <--- link to the FFMI study

[Tom Narvaez]

That seems like amazing progress. If they were at 245 in 3 weeks they would have to have started at 200 on their first workout if going up by 5's, 155 if going by 10's...

How common is that? You say people weighing 150 do it, but can an untrained novice actually squat their bodyweight the first time they try?

I'm only 5"5.5' and I just hit bodyweight (160lb) on my 14th workout, just over three weeks on the program. I'm either pathetically weak or you are training mutants. What am I missing here? (I haven't stalled yet, I just can't imagine being at 245x3x5 already)

P.s- I was not totally untrained. I had a previous 1rm of 155lb and a few years of random squatting practice. I also don't consider myself mentally weak, been a competitive athlete my whole life and dig deep on my sets.

I always add 10lbs for at least the first 5 workouts. If the bar speed is still fast enough, I keep adding 10. I went from 205 to 355 by 10s. I had "squatted" before and my best was 315x3@140lbs for a solid football half/quarter squat type thing. I'm half Swiss, half Puerto Rican, but got more of the Swiss genes in most respects.

In high school, back in my half-squatting days, there were five guys that I trained with for a significant amount of time:

The first was a two-way varsity football player as a junior. He got up to 295x5 on the squat in the ~3 months that we trained together (and also benched 315x5, lol). He's mostly Scottish and English.

Another was our football team's kicker. He did 315x5 or something like that, but was already god damn fucking strong before I ever lifted with him so it's kind of irrelevant. He pulled 450 as a sophomore. He's full-blooded Irish (well, close enough).

Another guy was a buddy of mine who ended up going into the Navy. He was about the same size as me, but completely ripped to shreds. He had never squatted before. Unlike the rest of us, he was basically a monkey who was the most flexible and, pound for pound, the strongest monkey I've ever known. In 3 months, he got to 265x5 TRUE ATG. I mean the real deal type of ATG squat. He started at 115 or 135 I believe. He was no more than 145lbs. He could have been a gymnast I swear (capable of 15+ pullups with an added 45lbs). He was 5'8" and a mixture of too many European descents for me to mention any of them.

Another two guys were soccer players. I trained with them much later on so I knew a bit more about form, but still couldn't coach for shit. The first one was about 6'1" and 135lbs. He quit after about 3 weeks and his best effort was 185x5 with thighs parallel (not a true low bar squat) because, again, I couldn't coach at the time. He practically died after the set and I think that's why he quit. The second guy was 5'10" and 150lbs and he got to 245x5 and failed the second and third set in ~4 weeks. He gained 12lbs or something in those 4 weeks as well because he took my eating advice very seriously, lol.

I don't have any journals from these aforementioned time periods so I can't give you exact numbers, but for the rest of the examples below, I can give precise dates, weights, sets, results, etc.

My buddy went to 275 from 155 (he was 5'11", Jewish, ~185 to start and a former track athlete, but had never squatted). Another friend of mine, 5'3" or 5'4", competitive MMArtist, Filipino, started at 135 to get the form down. Next time, I had him go up to 155 because it was too easy once he had proper form. From there, he went up by 10s until 225, I believe. He failed at 235, but was able to get 230 for the next two sets and then got 235 the next workout. He also trains for fights 4-6 times a week. His best set was 245 sometime during the end of the 4th week or beginning of the 5th week.

My little brother, when he was 14, but closer to 15, (5'9", ~155, even whiter gene expression than me), started at 115, did 135 the the next time, 155 after that, and went up by 10s to 205, and 5s to 245. I think that one was closer to 5 weeks.

My other little brother (5'7", 195, pretty damn fat, yet thicker bone structure than anyone in our family, almost 100% Puerto Rican gene expression), pulled 245x5 the very first time he lifted with room in the tank. He was up to a very, very easy 285x5 in his 3rd deadlift workout. He squatted 135 the first time, but once he could actually hit depth and use proper form, we quickly went up to 205x5 in a few workouts (3 at most) because it was pointless for him to do warm-up weights and stick to the usual progression. He got to around 235x5, but he also stopped lifting after 7-8 workouts because he likes computer programming and video games more than lifting. And, if he ever reads this, because he's a pussy : ).

So 3 weeks was inaccurate in most of the examples now that I REALLY think about it, but at least you can judge for yourself from the context of each situation. By the way, I only mentioned the races etc. to give you an idea of the variation of the gene pool.

The only obvious mutant between us all, just knowing what I do about the group, is my littlest brother. He is now 5'9" or so and 175lbs at maybe 11-13%. He does pushups, pullups, and runs a few miles a couple times a week. He did cross country and when the season was over decided to lift with me for fun a few times. He could hit 245x5 on his first day back. After cross country season. At 150lbs. And 16 y/o old. lol.

From this site, I've seen that the types of stories I mention are not necessarily common, which makes me wonder why this is so. Why is that almost everyone I've ever trained with seems to make faster progress than a lot of the people I hear about online? The only common denominator is age. I've only trained with guys who aren't even done fully developing as men. I've never trained with someone 25+. Perhaps that's why.


And I apologize for the atrocious grammar/sentence structure, but this was all very stream of consciousness and I can't be bothered to fix it.

[stonerider]

because the people most likely to visit this site are the ones who are having trouble, not the ones who are doing just fine