Low Testosterone

[Travis Rask]

Fellas,

Already pestered a few guys via PM after doing a search on the subject, thought I'd open it up for forum feedback.

Got my testosterone levels checked last week.

2013: 282ng/dL @ age 34

2010: 626ng/dL @ age 31 (this was during my CrossFit days; I was pummeling myself with SEALFit at the time)

I work as a professional firefighter, at a fairly busy station. I've been doing barbell work for just over two years, mostly LP. I had a week off in the week leading up to the latest test, with 8-9 hours a night and perfect nutrition (no drinking, take creatine, BCAAs, ZMA, melatonin, D3, eat pretty much Paleo, etc.). No DL session the night before.

I'm pretty concerned about my levels, especially en lieu of the fact I'm experiencing many of the symptoms associated with low T; they include

• Memory loss
• Difficulty concentrating/focusing/listening to others
• Not as social
• Loss of wit/smart-assery
• Loss of libido
• Increased BF
• Waking up to piss every night

These symptoms have been worsening over the past few years. I'm a highly motivated person. Read about 40 books a year, train consistently, very dedicated to job. Just feeling like something is "missing".

I feel like this might be affecting my training, as well. Considering my profession, this is important to me. I have another firefighter buddy who recently started TRT as well. His total T was 115 @ age 38. I suspect my levels are normally even lower, and were likely mitigated by a week off, and that low T is common among firefighters due to recovery/stress/cortisol issues.

I've been training with a SS coach, and am utilizing Jordan for nutrition coaching. My nutrition has been dialed the past 7 weeks. When I'm off duty, I get 8-9 hours sleep every night. I don't drink alcohol.

My PCP said my levels were "normal". I've scheduled an appointment with a urologist for the 25th, I'm hoping we can get this resolved, although I'm concerned it might take some searching around to find a doctor who will partner with me to get the right program going.

My questions:

1) Can anyone with similar expeience(s) provide some insight, suggestions on treatment, doctor search, etc?
2) Would I be better advised seeking consultation from a Men's and/or Anti-aging clinic that specializes in TRT?

[ColoWayno]

PM'd.
Sounds like exactly what I was going through. Get help, get better.

[Travis Rask]

Awesome, will read. Thanks Wayne!

[veryhrm]

I'm bearish on the whole subject of TRT currently especially for people in their 30s and 40s as i think "low-T" w/ TV commercials and everything, while sometimes real, is primarily being pushed for profit by the pharmaceutical industry. "Are you half the man that you used to be?" Do you want to feel 18 again and actually satisfy your wife for once? etc. etc.

Of the things you listed, the peeing every night (i actually hadn't heard of it as a low T thing, i'll check into it) but i've noticed that when i eat low carb i wake up in the middle of the night to pee. If i eat normal carbs or even just eat some carbs in the evening then i don't. And i don't mean "sometimes" it's become practically every time.

High protein also lowers test. And you might also be low in Iodine or selenium. Peruse the testosterone chapters in "4 hour body" if you haven't already.

So... basically between your diet and working out it could be what caused it.

Also check out this "catecholamine honeymoon" concept. I think i got myself into that bind a few months ago when after about 6-8 months of successfully losing weight everything kind of stopped working for me and then i felt cold and really hungry for like two months.

Oh, and if you do decide to do it, have you had all the kids that you want to have ? if not you should store some stuff just in case.

Finally... i'm starting to get suspicious about this heavy lifting stuff. Is it a coincidence that everyone here over age 30 (and even some who are under) are coming out w/ low-T ?

[PaulBeech]

I have all those symptoms! I'll add lifts going up and down like a yo yo too. I've put it all down to moving to California though. Are taking blood tests affordable? I don't have insurance but I've thought about it a couple times recently.

Veryhrm is the four hour body worth reading? Always thought that guy was a bit of a scammer but people at work praise him.

[veryhrm]

re 4HB... It's hit and miss. Has some interesting ideas to think about and/or try. The one thing that i picked up from him that's made a lot of difference for me (though obv. the idea is not unique to him) is to do a diet w/ a cheat day. It's really helped my compliance. OTOH, he says breakfast is really important, but on that i'm not so convinced. Breakfast has always made me hungry, so I'm going to try w/o for a while. His stuff on supplements is interesting. His various experiments w/ alternative medicine stuff is worth reading if only to know about the different things out there.

re blood tests: Last year i got some from this place http://directlabs.com Looks like you can get Test and free test (which is actually as important if not more so) for like $80. There's this "CWP" thing which has a lot of basic stuff in it. their "CWP + Testosterone, Total & Free " is $160 currently. If you step up to like $300 there's packages that have things like "estradiol (E2)" which is a form of estrogen (and, as i understand why people who juice take "aromatase inhibitors" to prevent the body from changing the test into estrogen). There are also tests for some thyroid hormones that can be relevant to these sort of energy issues. Some are included in the CWP but there are also some Thyroid anti-body tests if you think you might have some thyroid issues. But really it's probably not worth going into that unless you really have reason to.

[DutchPancakes]

Get at least one more test done before you commit to exogeneous T. Levels can vary wildly for all sorts of reasons.

[wes]

I have all those symptoms! I'll add lifts going up and down like a yo yo too. I've put it all down to moving to California though. Are taking blood tests affordable? I don't have insurance but I've thought about it a couple times recently.

Veryhrm is the four hour body worth reading? Always thought that guy was a bit of a scammer but people at work praise him.

Welcome to California. I saw an ad in the metro showing a place that will prescribe you testosterone, hgh, and weed in the same visit and you don't have to pay if you don't qualify.

[Bryan Dobson]

Call me a cynic but I have a hard time believing testosterone drops off like a cliff or that it is as common as the pharm industry attempts to convey. Can it be a problem? Yep . Is it related to lifestyle? Yep.
I spent my 30's doing rotational work on the north slope of Alaska, days-nights 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, all winter in the dark usually spending my two weeks off in Texas. It sucked. I spent a lot of time in the airport, I became a comfort eater. I slowly tapered off physical activity and began having chronic back pain problems and depression.

In 2008 I took a position in the area I am now in the 4 corners region. I developed a regular day to day reutine and my depression was soon gone. I began regular back treatment and soon as I began strength training it became less of an issue. I realized I had negative reaction to certain foods and have tried a paleo elimination diet to identify these foods slowly adding back things I can tolerate in moderation ( white rice, beer, gluten free breads) . Along with training this has affected me by my libido being better than it was 6 years ago and my personality has changed to a more laid back, less stressed style, I no longer sweat the small stuff.

But at 42 and cannot expect my body to recover or feel as it did at 21 , that would be unrealistic. With or without trt

As a firefighter I believe you are in the same lifestyle hole I was in.

[Kenny Crox]

Of the things you listed, the peeing every night (i actually hadn't heard of it as a low T thing, i'll check into it) but i've noticed that when i eat low carb i wake up in the middle of the night to pee. If i eat normal carbs or even just eat some carbs in the evening then i don't. And i don't mean "sometimes" it's become practically every time.

As you are probably aware, higher carbohydrates promote water weight storage.

Protein is a diuretic. High protein intake promotes a lot of peeing.

High protein also lowers test.

Great point. Research shows that when carbohydrate to protein intake drops below a 4:1 ratio, testosterone levels decrease.

Thus, I am not a proponent of the Paleo Diet or very low carbohydrate diets.

Peruse the testosterone chapters in "4 hour body" if you haven't already.

Tim Ferriss' 4 Hour Body is an accumulation of good information and misinformation.

The misinformation is one of the biggest problems with works of that nature.

Unless the reader is knowledgeable about the topic being address, they accept fallacy as fact.

Kenny Croxdale